High Speed Wobbling?
- Thread starter DjAnnexAlpha
- Start date
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/3...s-wheel-forum/323137-what-torque-lug-nut.html
Some mis-information in that thread, though.
The spec torque is only 75-80 foot-lbs, but I'm not sure 100 foot-pounds would stretch the studs or cause issues.
Also - overtorqueing will NOT warp the brake rotors, but uneven torquing (like you probably did), can ...
Some mis-information in that thread, though.
The spec torque is only 75-80 foot-lbs, but I'm not sure 100 foot-pounds would stretch the studs or cause issues.
Also - overtorqueing will NOT warp the brake rotors, but uneven torquing (like you probably did), can ...
100 ft lbs will probably stretch them. Repeated overtorqueing will eventually cause them to snap. And yeah, not tightening anything in order will cause warping. I usually do two stages of torqueing in order to make sure that won't happen, then go all the way around at my final torque to be sure everything is where it needs to be.
I pretty much tighten everything in order ... even a motherboard on a PC case. Been wrenching for so long that it is engraved in my brain.
I pretty much tighten everything in order ... even a motherboard on a PC case. Been wrenching for so long that it is engraved in my brain.
When aluminum wheels are removed, the lug nuts need to be retightened in less than 50 miles, or they will come loose and you will have a wheel come off your car, ruining your day. 
:thumbdown:
Every vehicle has recommended torque settings for the lug nuts and they differ from manufacturer to manufacturer. Reference your owners manual, or contact your Toyota dealership for the correct torque recommendations for the lug nuts of your Corolla.
As Donabed_Kopoian correctly states, wheel lug nuts should always be tightened using a torque wrench. Air guns can go up to 500 ft. lbs. of torque, (or even more), and just blasting the lug nuts on with an air gun can warp the brake rotors faster than you can blink an eye, resulting in vibration every time you apply the brakes. Then you have to replace the brake rotors to correct the problem. Not good.
-- B.F.Goodrich T/A Certified Tire Specialist
:thumbdown:Every vehicle has recommended torque settings for the lug nuts and they differ from manufacturer to manufacturer. Reference your owners manual, or contact your Toyota dealership for the correct torque recommendations for the lug nuts of your Corolla.
As Donabed_Kopoian correctly states, wheel lug nuts should always be tightened using a torque wrench. Air guns can go up to 500 ft. lbs. of torque, (or even more), and just blasting the lug nuts on with an air gun can warp the brake rotors faster than you can blink an eye, resulting in vibration every time you apply the brakes. Then you have to replace the brake rotors to correct the problem. Not good.
-- B.F.Goodrich T/A Certified Tire Specialist
At one of the auto centers I managed, I once had a new tire buster fellow remove the lug nuts off a wheel, except that the wheel was actually a hubcap and it flew into many pieces when the trigger on the air gun was squeezed. :lol::laughing: I have to say though that hubcap honestly did look like a real wheel!
I have to say though that hubcap honestly did look like a real wheel!
Last edited:
When aluminum wheels are removed, the lug nuts need to be retightened in less than 50 miles, or they will come loose and you will have a wheel come off your car, ruining your day. :thumbdown:
:thumbdown:
After that is done, they just need to be torqued once each time they are re-installed, but they don't need to be retorqued again.
IOW - I have a 2002 Ford Focus with factory aluminum wheels. Every 5K miles, I have the tires rotated and the tire shop (hopefully) torques them properly and I drive away. No re-torque until the next 5K mile rotation.
OTOH, if I bought new aftermarket rims for the Focus, I would have to have them torqued at installation and then again about a week later, and then I could just go to 5K mile rotation intervals.
Last edited:
When steel lug nuts are torqued down onto aluminum wheels, with steel being a much stronger and harder metal than aluminum, microscopically the aluminum is slightly stretched, which can allow the lug nuts to loosen, with the end result being the wheel comes off of the vehicle. This is why re-torquing the lug nuts is advisable and it certainly will not do any harm. On the other hand, having a wheel come off can do a great deal of harm.
At any auto center I've managed during my thirty year automotive career, per the company legal department at headquarters, with any vehicle equipped with aluminum wheels that are removed at the auto center, the customer must be advised that they need to return within 50 miles to have the lug nuts re-torqued to avoid having the lug nuts coming loose and wheels coming off of a vehicle. Many auto centers even post signs to this regard. I've witnessed many cases of aluminum wheels coming loose when the lug nuts are not re-torqued.
-- B.F.Goodrich T/A Certified Tire Specialist
At any auto center I've managed during my thirty year automotive career, per the company legal department at headquarters, with any vehicle equipped with aluminum wheels that are removed at the auto center, the customer must be advised that they need to return within 50 miles to have the lug nuts re-torqued to avoid having the lug nuts coming loose and wheels coming off of a vehicle. Many auto centers even post signs to this regard. I've witnessed many cases of aluminum wheels coming loose when the lug nuts are not re-torqued.
-- B.F.Goodrich T/A Certified Tire Specialist
Last edited:
After 30 years in the automotive repair/maintenance industry managing multimillion dollar auto centers, in my humble opinion most auto repair centers are not very good and not recommending lug nuts be re-torqued before 50 miles has elapsed when using aluminum wheels is just one example.
Finding a competent and honest auto center is a real challenge these days.
Finding a competent and honest auto center is a real challenge these days.
By the way, with your 2002 Ford Focus, which engine is it equipped with? Is it the 2.0 litre Split Port single overhead camshaft engine or the 2.0 Zetec dual overhead camshaft engine? The Split Port engine has a design defect with the valve seats and sooner or later will fail, leaving you with a very expensive repair bill!
It can't hurt to re-check it, but ...
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=107&
When installing new wheels you should re-torque the wheel lugs after driving the first 50 to 100 miles in case the clamping loads have changed following the initial installation. This is necessary due to the possibility of metal compression/elongation or thermal stresses affecting the wheels as they are breaking in, as well as to verify the accuracy of the original installation. When rechecking torque value, wait for the wheels to cool to ambient temperature (never torque a hot wheel). Loosen and retighten to value, in sequence. Simply repeat the same torque procedure listed above.
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=107&
When installing new wheels you should re-torque the wheel lugs after driving the first 50 to 100 miles in case the clamping loads have changed following the initial installation. This is necessary due to the possibility of metal compression/elongation or thermal stresses affecting the wheels as they are breaking in, as well as to verify the accuracy of the original installation. When rechecking torque value, wait for the wheels to cool to ambient temperature (never torque a hot wheel). Loosen and retighten to value, in sequence. Simply repeat the same torque procedure listed above.
http://www.1010tires.com/about/Wheel-Tech - also says first time only.
I'm really not trying to be argumentative, just your reply and this thread are the only time I've seen it recommended after first installation: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23692715-Retorque-aluminum-wheels - and that thread really sounds like they just put it as a disclaimer so that with new rims you can't say you weren't warned.
Zetec Focus, btw ... - but http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254262 - confirmed, but still usually good for 100K mile or thereabouts.
I'm really not trying to be argumentative, just your reply and this thread are the only time I've seen it recommended after first installation: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23692715-Retorque-aluminum-wheels - and that thread really sounds like they just put it as a disclaimer so that with new rims you can't say you weren't warned.
Zetec Focus, btw ... - but http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254262 - confirmed, but still usually good for 100K mile or thereabouts.
Last edited:
Hey, if you don't want to re-torque the lug nuts, whatever floats your boat. It's your life. I'm just trying to share my professional experiences with this topic in the hope of helping you and others out.
Me, after all the times over 30 years in the automotive industry I have personally witnessed lug nuts coming loose with aluminum wheels that haven't been re-torqued, I'm not ever going to take the chance. I personally almost had an aluminum wheel come off my own car that an auto center claimed the lug nuts had been re-torqued, but they didn't. If I had been the typical driver that doesn't know much about cars and didn't pull over to investigate a loose steering situation and discovered a wheel that was about to come off, I might have been seriously hurt or even killed.
The Ford Focus 2.0 Split Port engine, (in my humble opinion), is a complete piece of junk! I've read of these ticking time bombs grenading in as little as 60,000 miles. The engine is notorious for dropping valve seats and destroying the engine. An owner of such a car can't even drive out of town without fear of their Ford engine failing on them!
I used to have one of these cars and after putting $1,000 into the car to correct other known problems with it, (like the defective ignition locks that fail and leave you stranded that only costs $325 to repair!), the engine had the catastrophic valve seat failure! A used replacement engine from my local junkyard with 77,000 miles on it is a whopping $1,700! They can go fly a kite!
This engine had this problem going all the way back to the Ford Escort. Ford knew about it, did nothing to correct it and installed the engine in the replacement for the Escort, the Focus! Oh yeah, most of them don't fail for 100,000 miles, which is just long enough to get out of the warranty period and screw over some unsuspecting motorist who buys one of these pieces of junk!
It will be a cold day in hell before I own another Ford, ever!
CarComplaints.com evaluation of the, "wonderful", Ford Focus! "Avoid the Clunker"! - http://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/Focus/
Me, after all the times over 30 years in the automotive industry I have personally witnessed lug nuts coming loose with aluminum wheels that haven't been re-torqued, I'm not ever going to take the chance. I personally almost had an aluminum wheel come off my own car that an auto center claimed the lug nuts had been re-torqued, but they didn't. If I had been the typical driver that doesn't know much about cars and didn't pull over to investigate a loose steering situation and discovered a wheel that was about to come off, I might have been seriously hurt or even killed.
The Ford Focus 2.0 Split Port engine, (in my humble opinion), is a complete piece of junk! I've read of these ticking time bombs grenading in as little as 60,000 miles. The engine is notorious for dropping valve seats and destroying the engine. An owner of such a car can't even drive out of town without fear of their Ford engine failing on them!
I used to have one of these cars and after putting $1,000 into the car to correct other known problems with it, (like the defective ignition locks that fail and leave you stranded that only costs $325 to repair!), the engine had the catastrophic valve seat failure! A used replacement engine from my local junkyard with 77,000 miles on it is a whopping $1,700! They can go fly a kite!
This engine had this problem going all the way back to the Ford Escort. Ford knew about it, did nothing to correct it and installed the engine in the replacement for the Escort, the Focus! Oh yeah, most of them don't fail for 100,000 miles, which is just long enough to get out of the warranty period and screw over some unsuspecting motorist who buys one of these pieces of junk!
It will be a cold day in hell before I own another Ford, ever!
CarComplaints.com evaluation of the, "wonderful", Ford Focus! "Avoid the Clunker"! - http://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/Focus/
Last edited:
I'll most likely get steel wheels with hubcaps and not need to worry about it (not that I worry about it much now).
My alternator died (again) a few weeks ago - no warning, no idiot lights, car just started stumbling and then wouldn't start. There are very few cars with more than 100K miles on them that you can reliably take out of town (somewhat including the Toyota, but it is probably at the high end of the reliability scale.
The Focus forum was useful for that - I spent the pre-emptive $65: http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98998
Errm - you are thinking of Hyundia/Kia. In a Ford (or to lesser extent Toyota), you have been on borrowed time for 40K miles by the time the car reaches 100K. (I think for 64K miles if it was a 2000 or 2001).
Not a very credible source IMHO - http://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/Corolla/
My alternator died (again) a few weeks ago - no warning, no idiot lights, car just started stumbling and then wouldn't start. There are very few cars with more than 100K miles on them that you can reliably take out of town (somewhat including the Toyota, but it is probably at the high end of the reliability scale.
The Focus forum was useful for that - I spent the pre-emptive $65: http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98998
Errm - you are thinking of Hyundia/Kia. In a Ford (or to lesser extent Toyota), you have been on borrowed time for 40K miles by the time the car reaches 100K. (I think for 64K miles if it was a 2000 or 2001).
Not a very credible source IMHO - http://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/Corolla/
CarComplaints.com is a very credible source and is very valuable.
They don't even mention the notorious tendency of the Ford Focus to have the rocker panels rust out.
There are many cars on the road that see 100,000+ miles these days and reliably too. Unfortunately the Ford Focus isn't one of them, especially with the junk 2.0 Split Port grenade engine!
They don't even mention the notorious tendency of the Ford Focus to have the rocker panels rust out.
There are many cars on the road that see 100,000+ miles these days and reliably too. Unfortunately the Ford Focus isn't one of them, especially with the junk 2.0 Split Port grenade engine!
Last edited:
I had the bad lock cylinder as well. And also:
Broken hood latch.
Broken battery clamp.
Power Steering Pump (the only thing that broke in warranty)
Bad Clockspring.
Broken Driver Side Window (manual).
Cracked upper intake box.
Completed rusted 4 year old alternator.
When I gave it to Toyota, the second slave cylinder was getting ready to grenade and the upper strut mounts were shot.
I rigged a lot of **** toward the end. I got tired of fixing one thing and having two other things break on it
Meanwhile, my Matrix was completely trouble-free.
Broken hood latch.
Broken battery clamp.
Power Steering Pump (the only thing that broke in warranty)
Bad Clockspring.
Broken Driver Side Window (manual).
Cracked upper intake box.
Completed rusted 4 year old alternator.
When I gave it to Toyota, the second slave cylinder was getting ready to grenade and the upper strut mounts were shot.
I rigged a lot of **** toward the end. I got tired of fixing one thing and having two other things break on it
Meanwhile, my Matrix was completely trouble-free.
I was actually looking at a Focus ST when I was looking at buying a 2014 Corolla S, but man ... I couldn't shake off the nightmare that the 2003 was.
I guess Ford is getting better. After the early 90's their reliability went to hell all the way up until a few years ago. I had a Mercury Topaz with the 2.0 HSC that my sister and I beat the hell out of, and that car was indestructible. Overheated toward the end of a 530 mile road trip due to a failed water pump, but after changing the pump and putting on a new head and upper gasket set, it ran better than when we started driving it.
Had a 3-speed automatic. Car was constantly at redline on road-trips and the car hit 196,000 miles on it when the automatic transmission oil pump went (I had my '82 Mustang GT on the road after building it back up and had just bought the '03 ZX3 so my Mom ended up getting the Topaz).
I was all willing to fix it ... her boyfriend wanted her to sell it and I was willing to buy it from her, and the jerk made her sell it to someone else for what it would have cost to fix it. Pissed me off.
I guess Ford is getting better. After the early 90's their reliability went to hell all the way up until a few years ago. I had a Mercury Topaz with the 2.0 HSC that my sister and I beat the hell out of, and that car was indestructible. Overheated toward the end of a 530 mile road trip due to a failed water pump, but after changing the pump and putting on a new head and upper gasket set, it ran better than when we started driving it.
Had a 3-speed automatic. Car was constantly at redline on road-trips and the car hit 196,000 miles on it when the automatic transmission oil pump went (I had my '82 Mustang GT on the road after building it back up and had just bought the '03 ZX3 so my Mom ended up getting the Topaz).
I was all willing to fix it ... her boyfriend wanted her to sell it and I was willing to buy it from her, and the jerk made her sell it to someone else for what it would have cost to fix it. Pissed me off.
I feel like I need to defend the Focus here too. We got rid of my wife's 2000 Focus ZTS to get her this 14 Corolla.
We got the Focus in 02 and drove it for 12 years exactly. The first couple years it had a few recalls which is to be expected from the first model year of a car. Other than that it was mechanically sound and never left us stranded. It did have a few quirks though, and when parts of the body started falling off due to rust, she said she needed something new.
We got the Focus in 02 and drove it for 12 years exactly. The first couple years it had a few recalls which is to be expected from the first model year of a car. Other than that it was mechanically sound and never left us stranded. It did have a few quirks though, and when parts of the body started falling off due to rust, she said she needed something new.
You were very, very lucky -> The "2000 Ford Focus has the most overall complaints" and was awarded by http://CarComplaints.com the, "Beware of the Clunker!" seal of disapproval.
The 2000 Ford Focus had a whopping 18 recalls, a jaw-dropping 295 Technical Service Bulletins issued and an incredible 18 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration investigations! ---> http://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/Focus/2000/
The 2000 Ford Focus had a whopping 18 recalls, a jaw-dropping 295 Technical Service Bulletins issued and an incredible 18 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration investigations! ---> http://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/Focus/2000/
I just got done with a 600 mile roadtrip. On the highway doing 70-80 the car did feel like it was being pushed around a bit much by the wind. Enough that my wife asked if it was windy. We were looking at the passing trees and they didn't seem to be swaying at all.
When we got back, her parents borrowed the car for a 1,000 roadtrip, they didn't report any ill handling.
I think the tires on the S at least, leave a little to be desired, stability and handling wise.
When we got back, her parents borrowed the car for a 1,000 roadtrip, they didn't report any ill handling.
I think the tires on the S at least, leave a little to be desired, stability and handling wise.
I looked up that tire on TireRack.com and it seems to be a very good tire, especially if you want to drive fast in the rain. It has very good wet performance survey results and very good reviews.
I did notice though that the original equipment tires for the 2014 Corolla S have a, "W", speed rating and the Pirelli's only have a, "V" speed rating, which is lower. The Pirelli's are also an XL/Extra Load tire, (whereas the original equipment tires are standard load), and they will very likely provide a stiffer ride because of that
On a Corolla, the difference between the "W" and "V" speed rating I don't think will be great.
I did notice though that the original equipment tires for the 2014 Corolla S have a, "W", speed rating and the Pirelli's only have a, "V" speed rating, which is lower. The Pirelli's are also an XL/Extra Load tire, (whereas the original equipment tires are standard load), and they will very likely provide a stiffer ride because of that
On a Corolla, the difference between the "W" and "V" speed rating I don't think will be great.
****, I just realized what the issue might be....
The wobbling issue might be because of the ride height mixed with the hard winds on I-95.
The wobbling also happened today when I was only doing 70 mph. It might be coincidental but I will try and order the 10th gen eibach springs and see how the car handles the winds after that. IF there is no change then I will change tires.
The wobbling issue might be because of the ride height mixed with the hard winds on I-95.
The wobbling also happened today when I was only doing 70 mph. It might be coincidental but I will try and order the 10th gen eibach springs and see how the car handles the winds after that. IF there is no change then I will change tires.
Don't talk to mechanics and service advisers who are not helping you with the problem your car has. These people are independent of Toyota Inc., working at an independent franchise.
Contact Toyota Inc. directly and have them open a case file on your car so the problem can get fixed, or using the lemon law, you can make them take the car back, giving you a complete refund and get another car. This of course makes them very motivated to fix your car! lol
Contact Toyota Inc. directly and have them open a case file on your car so the problem can get fixed, or using the lemon law, you can make them take the car back, giving you a complete refund and get another car. This of course makes them very motivated to fix your car! lol
If you took it back to the dealership, make sure to ask the service person to go on a test drive with you and have them in the car, or ask to have one of the service people ride along with you. That only way you can show them the problem .
I had really bad jerking problems for 2 weeks, it bug me to death. But everything was solved when I tighten my wheels. I took my car to my local tire shop and they took off all the wheels and re-tighten them with a adjustable torque wrench , problem free ever since. Every few week I check with my wrench at home to make sure the lug nuts are still tight too.