2002 Corolla Hesitation Under Load and P0441

#1
Just joined the forum, howdy.

So, I owned a 2005 corolla for several years and it was a great little car until a moron performed an illegal U-turn and totaled it.

I am back to Corolla ownership but this time a 5spd 2002 with 167k miles. I bought it off a professor that took care of this car like it was his only child. The thing is mint outside of this hesitation issue and a check engine code (po441). He told me he spent $1100 trying to fix this problem and gave up so he let it go cheap.

He had all new injectors installed with new plugs but it hasn't fixed the problem. I have only been driving it for a week now and immediately noticed the issue. Before I start digging around and testing things I've been told to run a compression test to make sure I don't have an internal engine issue.

The issue is that when driving real gently, like a little old lady, it's hard to notice the hesitation. But I also own an infiniti g35, so I am more used to pulling off the line quickly. When I drive the car like I'm in a hurry it's more noticeable, like pushing down the gas pedal gently vs hard doesn't make a difference. It'll sputter a little and just acts like it can't handle a jump in RPMs.

The check engine light is emissions related so I am not worried about that as much, unless it's related to the hesitation. He had a new catalytic converter and MAF sensor put in recently as well.

I'll report back after the compression test. It's this coming Tues. Anything else I should have the mechanic check. The plugs are new so maybe check the gap to be sure? Test the ignition coils? Double check the new injectors? Anything else?

Thanks in advance.
 
#2
P0441 is an evaporative emissions failure. That code and the light could be triggered by a faulty purge valve or a vacuum leak in the system.

Start there and get rid of the code before doing anything else, and make sure the mechanic actually tests the parts before assuming them faulty.
 
#3
I, too, own a 2002 with a 5-speed. Do you have any photos to share?

I have 233,000 miles on mine, also mint. I also have that emissions code and have just given up spending more than $50 on the Vacuum switching valve I replaced at the canister, hoping that would take away three codes that included the one you have. No luck. With so many miles, I am reserving my money toward future, more important repairs. Plus, my state doesn't mandate emissions testing.

I don't have the hesitation, though.
 
#4
So, compression test came back between 200-210 psi on all 4 plug holes. However, the holes that the ignition coils are bolted down with are stripped on 3 out of 4 of the bolts. The mechanic said that he thought this engine pushed around a gram through the holes and that with them stripped it could be causing a short. The check engine codes they pulled were p0441, same as autozone, and p0420, catalytic converter. But the cat is new this year.



I am having trouble narrowing down this issue. There are times when I drive it that nothing seems wrong, so that makes me think that some part is not broken but either shorting out or sticking or something. I am wondering if I unplugged the aftermarket radio and then drove it, if that would be worth while. I have a feeling that it's electrical/sensor related. The times it hesitates the worst is when I am at a stop and the RPMs will be sitting at a comfortable 900 then drop to 650-700 feeling like the engine is close to stalling, but it has never stalled. But when the AC is on and the fan kicks in when I'm stopped the RPMs go back up and I have little problems accelerating from a stop. But when the RPMs dip down and the light goes green, as I am letting off the clutch and pushing the gas pedal down, it's like the clutch is engaging but the gas pedal is not giving any gas to the engine. But every time I drive it and the idle does not drop when I come to a stop, the hesitation is least noticeable. So when it's low idling I have to rev the rpms a little before I even try engaging first gear. Then second is a little rough but less with third, barely noticeable with fourth and fifth gears. So I would say the hesitation and sputtering is worst with first gear and then tapers off till fifth. And again, it's the worst when the idle doesn't stay steady at 900-1000 at stops. Sometimes it does ,and I don't have problems, but sometimes it doesn't, and everybody is looking at me like I can't drive stick shift. Lastly, if I drive it for over an hour and never come to a complete stop, downshifting all the way to first, but not stopping, it has never hesitated badly, the worst times have always been after a complete stop and then a drop in idle to 600-700.



Any ideas? I have a ohm meter and was thinking about pulling some sensors and testing some possible electrical culprits.
 

Scott O'Kashan

Super Moderator
#5
A P0420 trouble code is not necessarily a bad catalytic converter. There are potentially many different reasons for that code to come up.

http://engine-codes.com/p0420_toyota.html

P0420 Toyota

P0420 Toyota - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1

Possible causes
- Three way catalyst converter Bank 1
- Exhaust tube
- Intake air leaks
- Fuel injectors may be faulty
- Fuel injector leaks
- Spark plugs may be faulty
- Improper ignition timing
- Engine Control Module (ECM)


Tech notes
As the code description implies the P0420 code means that the vehicle's control module has detected that the three-way catalytic converter is not working properly (is not as efficient as the factory is expecting). Replacing the oxygen (O2) sensors may sometimes fix the code, but in most cases the catalytic convert needs to be replaced to fix the problem. If the P0420 code is combined with other codes, try fixing the other codes first.

When is the code detected?
- Three way catalytic converter Bank 1 does not operate properly.
- Three way catalyst converter Bank 1 does not have enough oxygen storage capacity.
Possible symptoms
- Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light)
P0420 Toyota Description
The Engine Control Module (ECM) monitors the switching frequency ratio of heated oxygen sensors 1 (front O2 sensor) and heated oxygen sensors 2 (rear O2 sensor).
A three way catalyst converter (Manifold) with high oxygen storage capacity will indicate a low switching frequency of heated oxygen sensor 2. As oxygen storage capacity decreases, the heated oxygen sensor 2 switching frequency will increase.
When the frequency ratio of heated oxygen sensors 1 and 2 approaches a specified limit value, the three way catalyst malfunction is diagnosed.


 
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Scott O'Kashan

Super Moderator
#6
P0420 How To Diagnose A Bad Catalytic Converter - EricTheCarGuy

P0420 How To Diagnose A Bad Catalytic Converter - EricTheCarGuy

 
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Scott O'Kashan

Super Moderator
#7
P0441 Toyota - Evaporative Emission Control System Incorrect Purge Flow


Possible causes
- Missing Fuel cap
- Incorrect fuel filler cap used
- Fuel filler cap remains open or fails to close
- Foreign matter caught in fuel filler cap
- Incorrect fuel tank vacuum relief valve



Tech notes
There are factory service bulletin for the following Toyota models:

Toyota RAV4
Toyota Tercel
Toyota Paseo
Toyota Camry
Toyota Avalon
Toyota Tacoma
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota T-100
Toyota Factory Service Bulletin OBDII Code P0441

2003–2004 Toyota Corolla
2003–2005 Toyota Matrix
Toyota Factory Service Bulletin OBDII Code P0441 Corolla and Matrix

2003-2004 Toyota 4Runner
2003-2004 Toyota Tundra
2004 Toyota Camry
2004 Sienna
2004 Highlander
2004 Solara
Toyota Factory Service Bulletin OBDII Code P0441

If P0441 is combine with P0440 and P0446 use this bulletin:
2000-2003 Toyota Solara
2000-2003 Toyota Avalon
2000-2003 Toyota Camry
2001-2003 Toyota Sienna
Toyota Factory Service Bulletin OBDII Code P0441 Solara, Avalon, Camry, Sienna


Read more: http://engine-codes.com/p0441_toyota.html#ixzz3CUjuj15i
 

Scott O'Kashan

Super Moderator
#8
Wells EVAP Training with Sgt. Tech. P0440, P0441, P0442 etc.

Wells EVAP Training with Sgt. Tech. P0440, P0441, P0442 etc.



 
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#9
I would fix the 3 stripped holes. You should be able to heli-coil it but I couldn't tell without looking at the valve cover itself. I dunno what you mean by a gram pushing through or shorts, as those bolts don't carry current; however, the bolts being lose can cause the coil to have a loose connection with the spark plug and can be a cause of the hesistation.

Did you check the evap system for vacuum leaks yet? Troubleshoot and fix the P0440, then heli-coil the stripped bolts, and see if that fixes the hesitation before you do anything else.
 
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