1999 Corolla - Spark Plug Metal Ring Stuck on Thread

shawn99corolla

shawn99corolla

New Member
#1
#1
As most you know I have been relentlessly trying to troubleshoot a P0303 (cylinder #3 misfire). Today I removed the spark plug from cylinder #3 and noticed the mental ring was stuck to the thread and wasn't flush with spark plug like the others (see image below). I was able to loosen the mental ring from the thread and it now sits properly. Could this have possibly contributed to the misfire on that cylinder?

20141108_160148.jpg
 
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Scott O'Kashan

Scott O'Kashan

Super Moderator
#2
#2
Yes, it's possible that could have caused a problem, as it could cause a leak and lack of compression, leading to a misfire.

Did you compare the appearance of the #3 spark plug with any of the others? That will provide a lot of clues as to what is going on. Posting pictures of the end of the spark plugs where the spark occurs will help so I can see what they look like. Use a bright light to illuminate them.
 
shawn99corolla

shawn99corolla

New Member
#3
#3
Thanks Scott. Tomorrow during day light I will remove the spark plug again and take a picture so you can review. How awesome would it be if this was the issue! I am not getting excited just hopeful. :D
 
Scott O'Kashan

Scott O'Kashan

Super Moderator
#8
#8
Did you test the spark plug wires and ignition coils yet?

It seems very shoddy work that any professional automotive technician would install a spark plug like that. :thumbdown:
 
shawn99corolla

shawn99corolla

New Member
#11
#11
Scott,

The spark plugs that are in there now are the NGK BKR5EGP. Here is what I don't understand. On the NGK website they list these spark plugs to be
pre gapped @ 0.044.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/part_finder/car_truck_suv/results.asp?engineid=31268

However when I checked the gabs for myself last night all four were gapped exactly @ 0.036. I checked with the medallion spark plug gap tool. I then proceeded to gab them to the correct spec recommend by Toyota 0.044
(plus or minus 0.001).

If NGK list them as being pre gapped then why you do suppose the gap was off by -0.008? Unless my mechanic mis gapped them before installation but I doubt that. I say this because he just isn't that through and the gap on all four plugs were so precise which leads me to believe they came from factory that way.

I haven't driven the car after I gapped the plugs but when I do I will let you guys know if I feel a difference in the way the car behaves.
 
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Savoir-Faire

Savoir-Faire

New Member
#12
#12
shawn99corolla said:
Scott,

The spark plugs that are in there now are the NGK BKR5EGP. Here is what I don't understand. On the NGK website they list these spark plugs to be
pre gapped @ 0.044.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/part_finder/car_truck_suv/results.asp?engineid=31268

However when I checked the gabs for myself last night all four were gapped exactly @ 0.036. I checked with the medallion spark plug gap tool. I then proceeded to gab them to the correct spec recommend by Toyota 0.044
(plus or minus 0.001).

If NGK list them as being pre gapped then why you do suppose the gap was off by -0.008? Unless my mechanic mis gapped them before installation but I doubt that. I say this because he just isn't that through and the gap on all four plugs were so precise which leads me to believe they came from factory that way.

I haven't driven the car after I gapped the plugs but when I do I will let you guys know if I feel a difference in the way the car behaves.
Click to expand...
Just for the heck of it I'd go to the auto parts store and check the so-called pre-gap on a couple of brands. The one out of box that matches what the pre-gap size on the box or web site says I'd be willing to trust their quality a little more.
 
shawn99corolla

shawn99corolla

New Member
#13
#13
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Scott O'Kashan

Scott O'Kashan

Super Moderator
#14
#14
I don't like those plugs. I feel they are a marketing gimmick.

There is only one shortest path to a ground for a spark to go to, not two or more. There will be only one spark, not two.

I think you'd be much better off with a set of NGK Iridium or platinum spark plugs. They will last longer too.

I recommend you exchange them for the better plus above.
 
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Scott O'Kashan

Scott O'Kashan

Super Moderator
#15
#15
Any spark plug manufacturer can pre-set the gap all they want and it's going to change during shipping. The boxes the spark plugs are shipped in are banged around by people loading delivery trucks, etc., and this causes the spark plugs to rattle around and can change the factory gap setting. Always, always, always check and adjust spark plug gap as needed.
 
shawn99corolla

shawn99corolla

New Member
#17
#17
Ugg..too late I have already installed them. I bought these since they are what the corolla came with from factory. I thought it would be best to stick to that. I saved the old ones they look to be in good condition. If my car doesnt like these I will swap with old one.

Thanks,

Shawn
 
shawn99corolla

shawn99corolla

New Member
#19
#19
Guys,

Check this out. I found a sticker on the side of my engine that reads. "Use Twin Ground Electrodes Plugs" There is even a illustration that has a big X over the picture of a traditional plug. Interesting...did you guys know about this? I am glad I swapped the spark plugs with the one they recommend.


20141110_131656.jpg
 
shawn99corolla

shawn99corolla

New Member
#22
#22
Hey Scott to answer your question. I just checked pending codes using my obd2 scan tool app. No pending codes are stored. I will give it a couple of days before I admit defeat to the elusive P0303.

Screenshot_2014-11-10-18-51-36.jpg
 
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shawn99corolla

shawn99corolla

New Member
#23
#23
Scott O'Kashan said:
Any spark plug manufacturer can pre-set the gap all they want and it's going to change during shipping. The boxes the spark plugs are shipped in are banged around by people loading delivery trucks, etc., and this causes the spark plugs to rattle around and can change the factory gap setting. Always, always, always check and adjust spark plug gap as needed.
Click to expand...
I agree. However these particular spark plugs have the dual ground electrode configuration. The NGK website warns against gapping multi-ground plugs. Since they are the OEM spark plugs for my car they were pre gapped at factory. I did give them a good visual inspection and they checked out fine. NGK website specifically mentions.
"Gapping is not recommended on Multi-Ground plugs."

http://www.ngk.com/learning-center/article/190/should-i-gap-my-plugs

I also learned the "-11" in the part#NGK BKR5EKB-11 translates to gap measurement of 1.1mm (0.0433") which is the correct spec for my car.

Thanks,

Shawn
 
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Scott O'Kashan

Scott O'Kashan

Super Moderator
#24
#24
shawn99corolla said:
Scott,

As per your request please see below image of the spark plugs I recently removed. After review please let me what you think. Thanks!

http://oi59.tinypic.com/2d91mi9.jpg
Click to expand...
The spark plugs have a normal appearance and most importantly, they all look the same. This indicates the engine is not fouling out the spark plugs with either fuel or oil. Also, with all the spark plugs having the same appearance, this indicates there isn't a blown cylinder head gasket. If there was, the spark plug from that cylinder would look much different than the others. :thumbsup:
 
K

Kev250R

This is my other car
#28
#28
My ex's 4Runner and her Daughter's Tacoma (both with the same 3.4L V6) specified the use of dual-electrode plugs as well. I never tried running a standard plug in either of those engines. I'm pretty sure that the 1.8L engine in my Corolla uses standard plugs so maybe the dual-electrode plug was something Toyota only spec'd for a couple of model years.

I'm glad it turned-out not to be anything serious. I'm also in shock that a professional wrench would miss something like this :eek:

Kevin
 
shawn99corolla

shawn99corolla

New Member
#30
#30
Scott O'Kashan said:
Is the engine running better with the new spark plugs? Is the #3 cylinder still misfiring when cold?
Click to expand...
Scott,

The car is running great! It now has been two days and no misfires! I again checked today with my scan tool app and guess what? No DTC pending! I don't believe it. Could it have been the spark plugs all along? It sure seems that way, ever since I installed the factory recommend dual ground electrode spark plugs I have not had a misfire. I will keep and eye on it for few more days and then talk to my mechanic about the plugs. I hope we have finally nailed the problem only time will tell.

I would like to express my gratitude and appreciation. Thank you all so much for generously sharing your time and expertise. You are guys are awesome!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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Scott O'Kashan

Scott O'Kashan

Super Moderator
#32
#32
Shawn - I strongly suspect the problem was caused by the incorrectly installed spark plug on the # 3 cylinder. That's shody work. To think this...person, was going to charge you over $1,000 for internal repair work that was not needed. :furious::thumbdown:

Seems to me that...person, owes you some money for your time and the spark plugs you had to replace due to that...person, making a totally incorrect diagnosis.
 
K

Kev250R

This is my other car
#33
#33
Sadly 'Mechanics' like this seem to be pretty prevalent, at least in my area. My girl is looking for a used car to replace her wrecked Corolla and over the weekend (while I was in the desert at a race) one of her friends took her to her Mechanic who sells cars on the side. She found a Camry which she liked, the Mechanic assured her it was in great shape and even put new hubcaps on it, threw-in an aftermarket radio and said he'd been through it and mechanically it was perfect. I had spotty cell coverage where I was but got a couple of pics and immediately could tell the front-end had been smashed and (poorly) repaired.

Thankfully her bank was closed by this time so she had to wait until Monday to take the guy his money. Sunday night when I got back into town I went to go look at the car (the place was closed) and just looking at the outside of the car (and under the car I found some major issues). I convinced her to to take it to our fleet mechanic at work who confirmed that the car had been in a wreck, hadn't been repaired properly and had several other probs. She took the car back to the seller and told her she would not be buying the car and he tried to down-play all the problems then got mad at her saying he wouldn't have fixed it all up (referring to the hubcaps and new radio) had he known she wasn't going to buy the car!

Several of her friends swear by this guy and can't believe she didn't buy the car. Scary :huh:

Kevin
 
Donabed Kopoian

Donabed Kopoian

6 Speed Master
#34
#34
Kev250R said:
Sadly 'Mechanics' like this seem to be pretty prevalent, at least in my area. My girl is looking for a used car to replace her wrecked Corolla and over the weekend (while I was in the desert at a race) one of her friends took her to her Mechanic who sells cars on the side. She found a Camry which she liked, the Mechanic assured her it was in great shape and even put new hubcaps on it, threw-in an aftermarket radio and said he'd been through it and mechanically it was perfect. I had spotty cell coverage where I was but got a couple of pics and immediately could tell the front-end had been smashed and (poorly) repaired.

Thankfully her bank was closed by this time so she had to wait until Monday to take the guy his money. Sunday night when I got back into town I went to go look at the car (the place was closed) and just looking at the outside of the car (and under the car I found some major issues). I convinced her to to take it to our fleet mechanic at work who confirmed that the car had been in a wreck, hadn't been repaired properly and had several other probs. She took the car back to the seller and told her she would not be buying the car and he tried to down-play all the problems then got mad at her saying he wouldn't have fixed it all up (referring to the hubcaps and new radio) had he known she wasn't going to buy the car!

Several of her friends swear by this guy and can't believe she didn't buy the car. Scary :huh:

Kevin
Click to expand...
My sister called me up with a question while she got her 2010 Fusion oil change done. Guy wanted to replace the air filter for $50 ... then tried to sell her an $80 intake cleansing ... yeah ... told her to take the car out from there and find another place.
 
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