1991 Corolla No Start

[aprilaries]

I have this 91' Corolla DX wagon with auto tran for more than two years. It has ~149000 miles and I did regular maintenance during my possession.

It failed to start after a series of events:

Two weeks ago, I left the head light on over night and drained the battery (changed in 2013.6). After recharging it for ~1 hour at a local Autozone, I drove the car a few times, on highway and local for ~ 60 miles without any problem.

Three days ago, when I turned the key, the indicators were very dim and would go off when turned to ignition position and the car didn't start. I thought maybe the battery was low again. When opened the hood, I found that the battery slipped to one side, with the negative pole contacting the car chassis. I put it back and the car started immediately.

I thought the problem was solved and drove the car on highway but found the car changed the gear very reluctantly: The first shift wouldn't happen until the engine run really fast, much faster than before and the shift was very rough. Then no more shift and the car could only run at 45 - 50 mph with the engine runs very fast.

I drove it back via local and couldn't start it on the second day. Now it shows the similar symptom as the battery touching the chassis: dim indicators when key in, all indicators off at ignition and the car won't start.

Could anyone give me a hint? Thanks!

 

[Donabed Kopoian]

The shifting may or may not be related to the battery. Depends on if the automatic is controlled by electronics or not.

Sounds like with the battery moving around it broke a plate internally and no longer produces 12 V. Get a multimeter and measure the battery voltage with everything off. It should be around 12.4 - 12.7 V. If you are getting 10 V, that's a sign of a fractured lead plate.

If you find the battery is bad, get it replaced with the proper size battery that can be properly secured so that it doesn't move around as you are driving. Last thing you want is for the positive post to wind up touching ground.

What's odd is the negative post making a difference (it shouldn't since the negative post is directly connected to the chassis). Was the battery on its side or something? Is it a maintenance free battery? If not ... does it look like some of the acid escaped from the battery?

 

[aprilaries]

Thank you, Donabed

I did measure the battery the first time the car refused to start and it was 12.8 V. After I tightened down the battery, I started the car and measured the charging voltage to be ~ 14V. I'll measure it again.

The battery is maintenance free. There is a metal bar across the battery to fix it to the sit. When the battery shifted, it moved towards the engine side and pressed against the transmission fluid funnel. The negative electrode contacted with the metal bar.

Though I didn't see any obvious damage to the transmission fluid funnel, I checked the fluid level and it looked alright.

I did a little search and seems that the trans is controlled electronically and there is a transmission solenoid.

The shifting may or may not be related to the battery. Depends on if the automatic is controlled by electronics or not.

Sounds like with the battery moving around it broke a plate internally and no longer produces 12 V. Get a multimeter and measure the battery voltage with everything off. It should be around 12.4 - 12.7 V. If you are getting 10 V, that's a sign of a fractured lead plate.

If you find the battery is bad, get it replaced with the proper size battery that can be properly secured so that it doesn't move around as you are driving. Last thing you want is for the positive post to wind up touching ground.

What's odd is the negative post making a difference (it shouldn't since the negative post is directly connected to the chassis). Was the battery on its side or something? Is it a maintenance free battery? If not ... does it look like some of the acid escaped from the battery?

 

[Donabed Kopoian]

How do the cables look? Any fraying or signs of corrosion on the connections?

 

[aprilaries]

The cable looks OK. The positive pole always has some corrosion and I cleaned it when I charged the battery. I noticed the 100A fuse between the alternator and the battery seemed burned. I'll take a look when I got back.

Thanks!

 

[Donabed Kopoian]

That ain't good, LOL! Check your grounds, make sure they are solid.

 

[fishycomics]

just an ohm's meter you checked it that way?

Trickle charge the battery, do not fast charge it. check the battery since it moved visually , if it is a maintenance free one, you can see the electrolytes level on the sides of the bat, as well?

when the contacts are off, use No-Ox, or a grit of certain polish paper. And try again later to start up.

If your battery is older, it is time to get a newer. if it is fairly new to somewhat old, then it should hold the charge.

low level of electrolytes will get a weak battery. And as well on you eat the crap out of anything it touches. called battery acid. do not breath in the vapers, do not sand with no mask why I said Polish

 

[Donabed Kopoian]

It is also possible the plates have sulfated but it seems like too new of a battery for that to happen.

When a lead-acid battery goes through several discharge and charge cycles (i.e. running it dead a lot from leaving headlights on), the lead plates get sulfur deposits on them. It will read normal voltage when stopped and when running, but it won't hold a charge to save its life. Usually sulfating is what ultimately kills batteries (you jump or roll start the car, drive it around for twenty minutes to recharge, and 4 hours later it is dead again).

The only way to test this is to perform a load test. If you see the voltage drop below 10.5V with a 200 amp load, the battery is no good. Auto parts stores can do this for you and usually do it at no charge.

And getting a spray-on terminal protectant isn't a bad idea either, as that will keep corrosion under control.

 

[aprilaries]

Thank you guys for the suggestions! I'll post any updates.

 

[fishycomics]

a wheat penny near the terminal will make the acid stay clear, old trick they say, not a penny it is no longer copper.

but that is what they say.

 

[aprilaries]

Many thanks for all your suggestions!

I checked the fuses and all of them were OK. Today, I was able to start the car and drove it around slowly. But the problem remains: it didn't change gear at right time and couldn't change to high gear. Now it is clear that the battery was not the problem. There must be something else preventing the car from starting occasionally.

I'll try to get it to a nearby mechanism.

 

[fishycomics]

Well possibly the distributer cap or grounding like said could be looked into, rather not guess hope all gets resolved. keep us posted

 

[Scott O'Kashan]

Many thanks for all your suggestions!

I checked the fuses and all of them were OK. Today, I was able to start the car and drove it around slowly. But the problem remains: it didn't change gear at right time and couldn't change to high gear. Now it is clear that the battery was not the problem. There must be something else preventing the car from starting occasionally.

I'll try to get it to a nearby mechanism.

Check the level of the transmission fluid, as low fluid can cause delayed shifting.

 

[aprilaries]

Updates:

I finally got the car to a local shop and the mechanist fixed the starting problem: a battery cable was loose. But he couldn't figure out the gear shifting problem and suggest go to a transmission shop.

 

[Donabed Kopoian]

Do what Scott said and check the transmission fluid.

Start the car, and go R-N-D-N-R 3 times, giving each gear enough time to fully engage (about 2 seconds each), then put the car in Park, and with the engine running, check the transmission dipstick, and see if the fluid smells burned or looks brown in color (it should be red).

 

[aprilaries]

The fluid is brown, no strong smell.

I guess the trans fluid hasn't been flushed for a very long time. I was told not to touch the trans fluid (due to the car's age?), when first got the car more than two years ago.

I scheduled a check with a local AAMCO shop next Monday. The guy picked up the phone sounded like he was ready to buy and trash the car.

 

[aprilaries]

Got AAMCO check results: low transmission fluid pressure. Maybe some sticky valves. They are not sure of the exact problem. They suggest a 'soft' transmission rebuilt for more than $1200.

I guess I'll sell the car for parts or just drive it around till it dies.

 

[aprilaries]

I did a little search and ended up with the vacuum valve. Seems that all the symptoms matched a bad valve. Maybe I should just ask them to change the valve and see what happens.