Using Lucas Oil Stabilizer and Engine Restore Together
- Thread starter shawn99corolla
- Start date
Pour in oil additives are not recommended by anyone except the companies that manufacture them. These pour in oil additives upset the delicate chemical balance of a motor oil and can have unplanned and negative affects. Many vehicle owners manuals sternly recommend against pour in oil additives, even saying their use can void an engine warranty.
What are you looking for with using these pour in oil additives?
What are you looking for with using these pour in oil additives?
Using a high quality/technology synthetic motor oil like AMSOIL will provide for reduced engine wear/longer engine life, better fuel economy, more power/better throttle response, an internally cleaner engine/less sludge, reduced engine operating temperatures, reduced maintenance/oil change costs, easier cold winter engine starts and lubrication, as well as superior high temperature engine protection. See the video below. No pour in oil additives needed.
What really is a synthetic oil? Which company pioneered the synthetic oil industry for cars and trucks? What are the advantages of a high quality synthetic oil like AMSOIL vs competing oils? Can AMSOIL synthetic motor oils improve fuel economy? How are AMSOIL synthetic motor oils superior to other motor oils? What are the benefits of AMSOIL synthetic motor oils for the consumer? All these questions and more are answered in the below video.
What really is a synthetic oil? Which company pioneered the synthetic oil industry for cars and trucks? What are the advantages of a high quality synthetic oil like AMSOIL vs competing oils? Can AMSOIL synthetic motor oils improve fuel economy? How are AMSOIL synthetic motor oils superior to other motor oils? What are the benefits of AMSOIL synthetic motor oils for the consumer? All these questions and more are answered in the below video.
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In my opinion and that of many others in the industry, yes. A quart of motor oil is not just oil. Up to 25% of a quart of motor oil is comprised of what is called the additive package, which is a group of chemicals a tribologist, (an oil chemist), uses to either address all the many shortcomings of an old technology petroleum oil or enhance the performance of a high quality synthetic oil like AMSOIL.
When we use a pour in oil additive, it upsets the delicate chemical balance of the motor oil's additive package and can have unplanned and negative affects. It's like a cake recipe that calls for two eggs; if we add two more eggs, it doesn't make the recipe, (the oil's additive package), better, it will ruin the recipe. Using a pour in oil additive, we are playing chemist with an expensive engine. I don't advise this.
Again, the owners manuals of many vehicles sternly advise against the use of any pour in oil additives, stating that using them can void the engine warranty. That's about as damning as it gets.
OIL ADDITIVES: To pour or not
http://fleetowner.com/equipment/feature/oil_additives_pour_1108
"Snake oil. Mouse milk. Whiffle dust. Take your pick — few products have earned such unflattering sobriquets as aftermarket motor-oil additives. And for the very good reason that these promised boosters of miles per gallon and extenders of engine life pretty much fail to live up to their often breathless advance billing".
Click on the link above to read the entire article.
When we use a pour in oil additive, it upsets the delicate chemical balance of the motor oil's additive package and can have unplanned and negative affects. It's like a cake recipe that calls for two eggs; if we add two more eggs, it doesn't make the recipe, (the oil's additive package), better, it will ruin the recipe. Using a pour in oil additive, we are playing chemist with an expensive engine. I don't advise this.
Again, the owners manuals of many vehicles sternly advise against the use of any pour in oil additives, stating that using them can void the engine warranty. That's about as damning as it gets.
OIL ADDITIVES: To pour or not
http://fleetowner.com/equipment/feature/oil_additives_pour_1108
"Snake oil. Mouse milk. Whiffle dust. Take your pick — few products have earned such unflattering sobriquets as aftermarket motor-oil additives. And for the very good reason that these promised boosters of miles per gallon and extenders of engine life pretty much fail to live up to their often breathless advance billing".
Click on the link above to read the entire article.
Did you use the classic lucas oil stabilizer or the synthetic lucas oil stabilizer? Even lucas does not reccomend the non-synthetic stabilizer for vehicles such as ours. It thickens the oil too much. The synthetic is formulated thinner for use in engines with lower viscosity oils.
I wouldn't use either if I were you. They make a lot of claims but don't live up to them.
Independent AMSOIL Dealer, Contact me to get the world's best oil for prices lower than brands like Mobil1 and Royal Purple!
GoldMedalSyntheticOils.com
I wouldn't use either if I were you. They make a lot of claims but don't live up to them.
Independent AMSOIL Dealer, Contact me to get the world's best oil for prices lower than brands like Mobil1 and Royal Purple!
GoldMedalSyntheticOils.com
That depends on the 20W-50 in question.
Petroleum oils have a film strength of about 550 psi, whereas AMSOIL synthetics can have a film strength of over 3,000 psi.
3,000 psi vs 550 psi film strength provides much more lubrication and likely would have resolved the same problem, or at least put a band-aid on it.
Petroleum oils have a film strength of about 550 psi, whereas AMSOIL synthetics can have a film strength of over 3,000 psi.
3,000 psi vs 550 psi film strength provides much more lubrication and likely would have resolved the same problem, or at least put a band-aid on it.
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Wow so much information. I will let it all detonate in my mind for a bit. I cant believe I fell for a "cure all fix all" in a can. I feel like a complete ass****, having said that I always try to consider the source of information and in this case I feel since lot of you are Amsoil dealer which makes me wonder if the options can be objective or even a little bias perhaps? I really appreciate the information provided thank you guys/gals.
I will tell you what my licensed mechanic told me. He has tore down engines that had Lucas oil additive in it and the parts in there are so slippery you have a hard time hanging on them and the oil literally sticks to the parts.
Now he dose not sell any kind of oil or additive but he told me after seeing that he adds Lucas synthetic to his vehicles now.
Now he dose not sell any kind of oil or additive but he told me after seeing that he adds Lucas synthetic to his vehicles now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by breye
I will tell you what my licensed mechanic told me. He has tore down engines that had Lucas oil additive in it and the parts in there are so slippery you have a hard time hanging on them and the oil literally sticks to the parts. Now he dose not sell any kind of oil or additive but he told me after seeing that he adds Lucas synthetic to his vehicles now.
Their, "synthetic", oil does not compare well at all to other synthetic oils on the market, especially industry leading AMSOIL synthetic motor oils. In several industry standard test results, the Lucas "synthetic", oil came in dead last, which is really not surprising since they have so little experience formulating true synthetic oils -
http://wpc.1c96.edgecastcdn.net/001...esting Archives/g3115-2013-current/index.html
When we use a pour in oil additive, it upsets the delicate chemical balance of the motor oil's additive package and can have unplanned and negative affects. It's like a cake recipe that calls for two eggs; if we add two more eggs, it doesn't make the recipe, (the oil's additive package), better, it will ruin the recipe. Using a pour in oil additive, we are playing chemist with an expensive engine. I don't advise this.
OIL ADDITIVES: To pour or not
http://fleetowner.com/equipment/feat...ives_pour_1108
"Snake oil. Mouse milk. Whiffle dust. Take your pick — few products have earned such unflattering sobriquets as aftermarket motor-oil additives. And for the very good reason that these promised boosters of miles per gallon and extenders of engine life pretty much fail to live up to their often breathless advance billing".
Click on the link above to read the entire article.
__________________
Wow so much information. I will let it all detonate in my mind for a bit. I cant believe I fell for a "cure all fix all" in a can. I feel like a complete ass****, having said that I always try to consider the source of information and in this case I feel since lot of you are Amsoil dealer which makes me wonder if the options can be objective or even a little bias perhaps? I really appreciate the information provided thank you guys/gals.
"I've run the cheap Walmart oil in my cars for hundreds of thousands of miles with no issues. The bodies rust out before the engines fail".
It's not a choice between catastrophic engine failure or not.
I get the same response all the time. "I have xxx,xxx miles on all my cars and no catastrophic failures". It isn't about preventing catastrophic engine failure. If that's the only benefit you perceive to synthetic oils, then you don't understand synthetic oils.
Synthetic Oil: Rx for Long Engine Life -
http://getahelmet.com/jeeps/tech/syntheticoil/
It's not a choice between catastrophic engine failure or not.
I get the same response all the time. "I have xxx,xxx miles on all my cars and no catastrophic failures". It isn't about preventing catastrophic engine failure. If that's the only benefit you perceive to synthetic oils, then you don't understand synthetic oils.
Synthetic Oil: Rx for Long Engine Life -
http://getahelmet.com/jeeps/tech/syntheticoil/
sds - If all you've ever had to eat in life was cheap fast food cheeseburgers, does that mean they are, "good", for you just because they are cheap and you haven't had a heart attack yet?
Aren't there benefits associated with better food?
So it goes with conventional, dead dinosaur oils vs high tech synthetic motor oils like AMSOIL.:thumbsup:
Aren't there benefits associated with better food?
So it goes with conventional, dead dinosaur oils vs high tech synthetic motor oils like AMSOIL.:thumbsup:
Scott, as I've stated before, all of my vehicles have been provided the "cheap fast food cheeseburgers" of oil with no ill effects for the long term life of the engine.
So I can categorically state cheap dino oils equates to a long engine life, at least in the case of the many vehicles I have owned over the last 30 years.
Sure, I would like to eat at more expensive restaurants but when one is trying to save money, it's one of the things you can eliminate as being neither beneficial or needed. :yes:
I think the gist of the previous poster was lets provide mechanical advice and help instead of offering a sales pitch for the products one has a vested financial interest in.
So I can categorically state cheap dino oils equates to a long engine life, at least in the case of the many vehicles I have owned over the last 30 years.
Sure, I would like to eat at more expensive restaurants but when one is trying to save money, it's one of the things you can eliminate as being neither beneficial or needed. :yes:
I think the gist of the previous poster was lets provide mechanical advice and help instead of offering a sales pitch for the products one has a vested financial interest in.
sds - There is no, "sales pitch", thank you. I speak facts. Period. I support this forum with thousands of posts that help thousands of forum members with their Corolla's on a very wide range of topics. In order to support the Corolla Forum, I would think you'd want to support me, instead of cutting me down. Does Walmart support this forum? No. But I sure do! I've spent thousands of hours researching videos, tech articles and countless other interesting articles and posting them to this forum for the benefit of everyone here, helping in a major way to make this the best darned Corolla forum on the Internet. I've spent thousands of more hours answering posts, technical questions, etc., many times without so much as a, "thank you", in return. I've spent countless more hours cleaning threads up, merging duplicate posts and a host of other things that improve this forum for everyone here that you have no idea about. I support this forum more than some mega-giant corporate sponsor ever possibly could. Do I get paid to do this? No. When I first came to this forum it was a ghost town. But I have busted my butt to help build this forum and now you turn around and not only don't support me, but bash me? Not cool, at all. Other forum members here do support me and I thank them very much, as it directly helps to support this great Corolla Forum for the benefit of everyone! :thumbsup:
Now, when one is trying to save money, it's the, "cheap", petroleum oils that in many cases cost a lot more money to use than a high quality synthetic oil. That's the main, "ill effect" of using, "cheap", petroleum oils and there are many other associated ill effects. Yes a, "cheap", petroleum oil has a lower price than a high tech synthetic oil like AMSOIL, but it usually has a much higher cost. Price and cost. Two different things entirely. The cost savings a high quality synthetic oil can provide vs a, "cheap", petroleum oil can be dramatic. Using AMSOIL has saved me thousands of dollars over the years in reduced maintenance costs and improved fuel economy vs, "cheap", petroleum oils and there are documented test results that prove this. How can you afford that cheap stuff?
Again, it's not just about how long an engine will last, or not. Virtually any oil will provide long engine life. There's a lot more to the picture than just engine life. It's about reduced maintenance costs, improved fuel economy/reduced fuel costs, improved lubrication, reduced engine wear/longer engine life/runs "like new" for a longer period of time, reduced emissions, more power/better throttle response, an internally cleaner engine/less sludge build up, much easier cold winter engine starts, superior high temperature engine protection and other benefits as well.
If you would please read the below independent article, that I have provided to you several times, you will learn about all the substantial benefits a high quality synthetic oil delivers vs a conventional petroleum oil. Did you know that when you use conventional petroleum motor oil you are actually pouring contaminants into an engine? Paraffins and other waxes, asphalt, heavy metals, naphthenes and benzenes, corrosive acids, as well as sulphur, chlorine, and nitrogen, remain in an unopened bottle of conventional petroleum oil and these are not good for an engine, providing no lubrication benefits. Conversely, with a premium high tech synthetic oil, it is devoid of these contaminants and so it can do its job much better than a conventional petroleum oil.
Why would anyone want to knowingly pour contaminants into their expensive engines?
Synthetic Oil: Rx for Long Engine Life -
http://getahelmet.com/jeeps/tech/syntheticoil/
Below is a picture of what a premium, high quality, high tech synthetic base oil looks like, (AMSOIL), vs a conventional petroleum oil base oil. Are all synthetic oils the same? Will they all provide the same benefits? No, not anymore than all cars are the same, or all tires are the same, or all cakes, pies, houses, clothes, etc., are all the same.
Now, when one is trying to save money, it's the, "cheap", petroleum oils that in many cases cost a lot more money to use than a high quality synthetic oil. That's the main, "ill effect" of using, "cheap", petroleum oils and there are many other associated ill effects. Yes a, "cheap", petroleum oil has a lower price than a high tech synthetic oil like AMSOIL, but it usually has a much higher cost. Price and cost. Two different things entirely. The cost savings a high quality synthetic oil can provide vs a, "cheap", petroleum oil can be dramatic. Using AMSOIL has saved me thousands of dollars over the years in reduced maintenance costs and improved fuel economy vs, "cheap", petroleum oils and there are documented test results that prove this. How can you afford that cheap stuff?
Again, it's not just about how long an engine will last, or not. Virtually any oil will provide long engine life. There's a lot more to the picture than just engine life. It's about reduced maintenance costs, improved fuel economy/reduced fuel costs, improved lubrication, reduced engine wear/longer engine life/runs "like new" for a longer period of time, reduced emissions, more power/better throttle response, an internally cleaner engine/less sludge build up, much easier cold winter engine starts, superior high temperature engine protection and other benefits as well.
If you would please read the below independent article, that I have provided to you several times, you will learn about all the substantial benefits a high quality synthetic oil delivers vs a conventional petroleum oil. Did you know that when you use conventional petroleum motor oil you are actually pouring contaminants into an engine? Paraffins and other waxes, asphalt, heavy metals, naphthenes and benzenes, corrosive acids, as well as sulphur, chlorine, and nitrogen, remain in an unopened bottle of conventional petroleum oil and these are not good for an engine, providing no lubrication benefits. Conversely, with a premium high tech synthetic oil, it is devoid of these contaminants and so it can do its job much better than a conventional petroleum oil.
Why would anyone want to knowingly pour contaminants into their expensive engines?
Synthetic Oil: Rx for Long Engine Life -
http://getahelmet.com/jeeps/tech/syntheticoil/
Below is a picture of what a premium, high quality, high tech synthetic base oil looks like, (AMSOIL), vs a conventional petroleum oil base oil. Are all synthetic oils the same? Will they all provide the same benefits? No, not anymore than all cars are the same, or all tires are the same, or all cakes, pies, houses, clothes, etc., are all the same.
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sds - I don't push any, "financial agenda". I'm getting more than tired of the attitude. Kindly knock it off. You are indeed bashing me and my patience has reached its end.
Reduced maintenance costs are in reference to reduced frequency of oil changes, not repairs. Oil changes are a maintenance cost.
A quality synthetic oil like AMSOIL helps to reduce engine operating temperatures and reduced component temperatures tend to last longer as well, as do gaskets and seals lasting longer as they are not drying out and cracking as soon, (or at all), helping to reduce the likelihood of oil leaks due to hot engine operating temperatures causing gaskets and seals to crack and leak.
That's great you're getting better than EPA estimated fuel economy. Is there something undesirable with improving that further with a high quality synthetic motor oil, saving money?
The "ill effects", of using "cheap" petroleum oils instead of a high quality, extended drain synthetic motor oil, in most cases are increased maintenance costs/more frequent oil changes, more waste in used oil and oil bottles/filters/oil filter boxes for the environment to contend with, less than optimum fuel economy/increase in fuel costs, not as ideal lubrication/increased engine wear in cold and hot temperatures, less power/reduced throttle response, an internally dirtier engine/more sludge build up and more wear in cold winter engine starts, to name just a few. Those are indeed all ill effects.
If you would read the article I posted for you, you would learn these things. Do you have some document or article refuting all the well documented and proven benefits that high quality synthetic oils provide? If so, please share it.
Reduced maintenance costs are in reference to reduced frequency of oil changes, not repairs. Oil changes are a maintenance cost.
A quality synthetic oil like AMSOIL helps to reduce engine operating temperatures and reduced component temperatures tend to last longer as well, as do gaskets and seals lasting longer as they are not drying out and cracking as soon, (or at all), helping to reduce the likelihood of oil leaks due to hot engine operating temperatures causing gaskets and seals to crack and leak.
That's great you're getting better than EPA estimated fuel economy. Is there something undesirable with improving that further with a high quality synthetic motor oil, saving money?
The "ill effects", of using "cheap" petroleum oils instead of a high quality, extended drain synthetic motor oil, in most cases are increased maintenance costs/more frequent oil changes, more waste in used oil and oil bottles/filters/oil filter boxes for the environment to contend with, less than optimum fuel economy/increase in fuel costs, not as ideal lubrication/increased engine wear in cold and hot temperatures, less power/reduced throttle response, an internally dirtier engine/more sludge build up and more wear in cold winter engine starts, to name just a few. Those are indeed all ill effects.
If you would read the article I posted for you, you would learn these things. Do you have some document or article refuting all the well documented and proven benefits that high quality synthetic oils provide? If so, please share it.
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sds - You state your 1999 Corolla delivers between 34-37 mpg using, "cheap", petroleum motor oils. That averages out to 35.5 mpg.
You state you keep your vehicles for several hundred thousand miles.
200,000 miles divided by 35.5 mpg = 5,633.80 gallons of fuel used over that 200,000 miles.
5,633.80 gallons X $3.30 per gallon = $18,591.54 fuel cost using, "cheap", petroleum oils.
A high quality, high tech synthetic motor oil like AMSOIL typically improves fuel economy 2-5%, sometimes even more. So let's see what the calculator will reveal about the, "cheap", petroleum motor oils -
35.5 mpg X 2% increase = + 0.71 mpg = 36.21 mpg.
200,000 miles divided by 36.21 mpg = 5,523.34 gallons of fuel used over that 200,000 miles.
5,523.34 gallons X $3.30 per gallon = $18,227.02 using, "expensive", AMSOIL synthetic motor oils.
$18,591.54 = "Cheap", petroleum oil fuel costs.
- $18,227.02 = "Expensive", AMSOIL synthetic motor oil fuel costs.
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$364.52 = "Expensive", AMSOIL synthetic motor oil provided fuel cost savings vs, "cheap petroleum oil".
At a 5% AMSOIL provided fuel economy increase -
35.5 mpg X 5% increase = + 1.77 mpg = 37.27 mpg.
200,000 miles divided by 37.27 mpg = 5,366.25 gallons of fuel used over that 200,000 miles.
5,366.25 gallons X $3.30 per gallon = $17,708.63 using, "expensive", AMSOIL synthetic motor oils.
$18,591.54 = "Cheap", petroleum oil fuel costs.
- $17,708.63 = "Expensive", AMSOIL synthetic motor oils.
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$882.91 = "Expensive", AMSOIL synthetic motor oil provided fuel cost savings vs, "cheap petroleum oil".
So just in reduced fuel costs alone, using AMSOIL synthetic motor oils, the savings range between $364.50 to $882.91. That's darned good money saved instead of using, "cheap", but costly petroleum oils. How can you afford to use that, "cheap" petroleum oil?
Not to mention anywhere from 110 to 267 gallons less fuel burned, reducing emissions, helping the environment.
So the calculator has revealed that, "cheap", petroleum motor oil isn't so cheap after all. :thumbsup:
You state you keep your vehicles for several hundred thousand miles.
200,000 miles divided by 35.5 mpg = 5,633.80 gallons of fuel used over that 200,000 miles.
5,633.80 gallons X $3.30 per gallon = $18,591.54 fuel cost using, "cheap", petroleum oils.
A high quality, high tech synthetic motor oil like AMSOIL typically improves fuel economy 2-5%, sometimes even more. So let's see what the calculator will reveal about the, "cheap", petroleum motor oils -
35.5 mpg X 2% increase = + 0.71 mpg = 36.21 mpg.
200,000 miles divided by 36.21 mpg = 5,523.34 gallons of fuel used over that 200,000 miles.
5,523.34 gallons X $3.30 per gallon = $18,227.02 using, "expensive", AMSOIL synthetic motor oils.
$18,591.54 = "Cheap", petroleum oil fuel costs.
- $18,227.02 = "Expensive", AMSOIL synthetic motor oil fuel costs.
---------------
$364.52 = "Expensive", AMSOIL synthetic motor oil provided fuel cost savings vs, "cheap petroleum oil".
At a 5% AMSOIL provided fuel economy increase -
35.5 mpg X 5% increase = + 1.77 mpg = 37.27 mpg.
200,000 miles divided by 37.27 mpg = 5,366.25 gallons of fuel used over that 200,000 miles.
5,366.25 gallons X $3.30 per gallon = $17,708.63 using, "expensive", AMSOIL synthetic motor oils.
$18,591.54 = "Cheap", petroleum oil fuel costs.
- $17,708.63 = "Expensive", AMSOIL synthetic motor oils.
-----------------
$882.91 = "Expensive", AMSOIL synthetic motor oil provided fuel cost savings vs, "cheap petroleum oil".
So just in reduced fuel costs alone, using AMSOIL synthetic motor oils, the savings range between $364.50 to $882.91. That's darned good money saved instead of using, "cheap", but costly petroleum oils. How can you afford to use that, "cheap" petroleum oil?
Not to mention anywhere from 110 to 267 gallons less fuel burned, reducing emissions, helping the environment.
So the calculator has revealed that, "cheap", petroleum motor oil isn't so cheap after all. :thumbsup:
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I just came back to this post and look what I started. LoL. Well Scott you clearly sound informed and educated on the subject. I want to express my gratitude to you for educating and expanding the knowledge base of this forum. Additionally thank you for providing information back by independent research. I certainly have learned a lot from the information you have provided on various subjects and I hope you will continue to contribute even if you don't get a "thank you". People and myself included take things for granted and don't often realize the information you have compiled literally took thousands hours. Thank you again! keep up and continue the good work.
Hey Scott I think you will get a kick out of this.Perhaps "For entertainment purposes only" should be added.
Watch "Regular Oil vs Synthetic Oil -EricTheCarGuy" on YouTube
Regular Oil vs Synthetic Oil -EricTheCarGuy: http://youtu.be/lshd7WR-a6I
Watch "Regular Oil vs Synthetic Oil -EricTheCarGuy" on YouTube
Regular Oil vs Synthetic Oil -EricTheCarGuy: http://youtu.be/lshd7WR-a6I
Thank you. I've seen that video before. Eric is a great guy and an excellent automotive technician. However, as with most automotive technicians, when it comes to engine oils he lacks knowledge. Eric and I have communicated back and forth about this and at least now he knows a bit more than he did before. Unfortunately, that video is full of misinformation. To update that video, he has even offered me to come and do a video with him about motor oils and in specific, AMSOIL synthetic motor oils. Eric is one of the better people I've come across in life. :thumbsup:
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shawn99corolla - Thank your for your support and kind words. :notworthy:
I enjoy helping people in any way I can and since the automotive industry is my chosen profession, then helping people with their vehicles is a natural for me. So I get perturbed when someone tries to paint a false picture of me as some kind of greedy crook, as that's not me at all.
All throughout my career I have treated people the way I'd want to be treated. One of the biggest compliments I ever received from my customers was when one morning in my auto center a gentleman came in just as I opened for business. He's a regular customer of mine and he was in a rush to get to his hardware store to open it for the day. He handed me the keys to his car and said, "My car needs four tires and brakes. I've got to get to my store. I'll see you at the end of the day", and in a rush took off to open his store.
I looked at the keys in my hand and thought to myself, "This man is trusting me with his car and more importantly, his wallet. He knows I'm not going to rip him off and do more with his car than what is needed". I tell you, that was a pretty great feeling, because that is what I have always strived for; to take care of people, not just their vehicles. To earn their trust and to help them out as best as I possibly can. After I evaluated his car to to see what it needed or not, I called him on the phone to provide the options he had available to him, but that he had trusted me so completely, well to me that meant I was doing my job right and much more importantly, living my life right. It's nice to be able to look at yourself in the mirror in the morning and I can not and will not live any other way. To me, success in life isn't about accumulating wealth and material possessions, but in helping people. Period. We are all brothers and sisters in this big world and we should always be helping each other. That is my, "agenda". :thumbsup:
So when someone tries to make me out as some kind of selfish crook with an, "agenda", I naturally don't take that personal attack very kindly. I have been very patient, but I will not tolerate this anymore.
I enjoy helping people in any way I can and since the automotive industry is my chosen profession, then helping people with their vehicles is a natural for me. So I get perturbed when someone tries to paint a false picture of me as some kind of greedy crook, as that's not me at all.
All throughout my career I have treated people the way I'd want to be treated. One of the biggest compliments I ever received from my customers was when one morning in my auto center a gentleman came in just as I opened for business. He's a regular customer of mine and he was in a rush to get to his hardware store to open it for the day. He handed me the keys to his car and said, "My car needs four tires and brakes. I've got to get to my store. I'll see you at the end of the day", and in a rush took off to open his store.
I looked at the keys in my hand and thought to myself, "This man is trusting me with his car and more importantly, his wallet. He knows I'm not going to rip him off and do more with his car than what is needed". I tell you, that was a pretty great feeling, because that is what I have always strived for; to take care of people, not just their vehicles. To earn their trust and to help them out as best as I possibly can. After I evaluated his car to to see what it needed or not, I called him on the phone to provide the options he had available to him, but that he had trusted me so completely, well to me that meant I was doing my job right and much more importantly, living my life right. It's nice to be able to look at yourself in the mirror in the morning and I can not and will not live any other way. To me, success in life isn't about accumulating wealth and material possessions, but in helping people. Period. We are all brothers and sisters in this big world and we should always be helping each other. That is my, "agenda". :thumbsup:
So when someone tries to make me out as some kind of selfish crook with an, "agenda", I naturally don't take that personal attack very kindly.
I have been very patient, but I will not tolerate this anymore.
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I hear you and believe you have the right to take the position you have expressed. I feel pretty foolish after researching the information you and others have provided. My mechanic thought it would be a good idea to add 1 quart of heavy duty Lucas oil stabilizer ( http://lucasoil.com/products/engine-oil-additives/lucas-heavy-duty-oil-stabilizer ) with 3 quarts of mobile1 10W 30 full synthetic and a can of engine restore ( http://www.restoreusa.com/ ) It would appear that all I have done is change the viscosity of the oil and diluted the detergents in the oil however I must say I think that can of Engine Restore has had a positive effect. There has been an improvement in performance and gas mileage or it could be all in my head. Also the misfires have calm down but not disappeared all together. Perhaps all of this is just a placebo effect. I should probably do another oil change soon the one with the above additives was done 800 miles ago.
The reason for these treatments were to remedy an ongoing misfire on cylinder #3. (P0303). The mechanic has changed all external parts of the engine to try and fix this problem. After 4 new fuel injectors, all new spark plugs, all new spark plug wire, new distributor cap. He also installed a new intake manifold gasket, check for vacuum leaks all to no avail. The O2 senors are working properly he has tested them. The throttle body has been clean. After a dozen trips to his shop he comes back and tells me its internal and the valves are not seating properly allowing oil to leak therefore when I start the car for the first time in the morning the engine misfires until the oil is burned off. In the morning the car misfires but then it completely goes away once the engine has reached operating temperature usually 15 to 20 minutes of driving.
At this point I cant afford to do the internal work the car requires to solve the misfire. I believe I was quoted between $1200 to $1500 for the job. I am pissed because I had the same mechanic check out this car just before purchase he was the one that the previous owner took the car to for all maintenance needs. The mechanic gave me the green light and said it would a good purchase. I know he feels bad because he has done most of the work I listed above for free.
The car had 146,000 miles on it and it had just pass smog 30 days prior to me purchasing it so I thought this was a good sign. I paid $2400.00 for the car and thought I got a good deal you know it being a Toyota Corolla and all.
I should add that other than the morning misfires the car runs great, doesn't burn oil, shifts smoothly, good pick up well at least for a corolla. You are going to laugh but my previous car was a 2009 Mercedes CL63 AMG. I got around 12 to 15 miles a gallon that thing but I loved her. Long story short ran into some real financial difficulties and the bank took back the car.
I use to lease a brand new car every two years and had no concept of a mechanic in fact I had not been to one in over 12 years. Well, all I can say is this has been a good learning experience and I hope my little humble 99 corolla will last me as long as it takes to get out of this financial hole I have dug.
Again, I am appreciative and grateful to this forum and also for moderators
like yourself Scott with intensive knowledge as I would be pretty lost without. I would like to give back to this forum and others instead of always asking and taking. I feel I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous...lol so I will leave that to you and the other experts on this forum. Thanks for listening and allowing me to share on this platform I feel privileged to be able to do so.
The reason for these treatments were to remedy an ongoing misfire on cylinder #3. (P0303). The mechanic has changed all external parts of the engine to try and fix this problem. After 4 new fuel injectors, all new spark plugs, all new spark plug wire, new distributor cap. He also installed a new intake manifold gasket, check for vacuum leaks all to no avail. The O2 senors are working properly he has tested them. The throttle body has been clean. After a dozen trips to his shop he comes back and tells me its internal and the valves are not seating properly allowing oil to leak therefore when I start the car for the first time in the morning the engine misfires until the oil is burned off. In the morning the car misfires but then it completely goes away once the engine has reached operating temperature usually 15 to 20 minutes of driving.
At this point I cant afford to do the internal work the car requires to solve the misfire. I believe I was quoted between $1200 to $1500 for the job. I am pissed because I had the same mechanic check out this car just before purchase he was the one that the previous owner took the car to for all maintenance needs. The mechanic gave me the green light and said it would a good purchase. I know he feels bad because he has done most of the work I listed above for free.
The car had 146,000 miles on it and it had just pass smog 30 days prior to me purchasing it so I thought this was a good sign. I paid $2400.00 for the car and thought I got a good deal you know it being a Toyota Corolla and all.
I should add that other than the morning misfires the car runs great, doesn't burn oil, shifts smoothly, good pick up well at least for a corolla. You are going to laugh but my previous car was a 2009 Mercedes CL63 AMG. I got around 12 to 15 miles a gallon that thing but I loved her. Long story short ran into some real financial difficulties and the bank took back the car
.I use to lease a brand new car every two years and had no concept of a mechanic in fact I had not been to one in over 12 years. Well, all I can say is this has been a good learning experience and I hope my little humble 99 corolla will last me as long as it takes to get out of this financial hole I have dug.
Again, I am appreciative and grateful to this forum and also for moderators
like yourself Scott with intensive knowledge as I would be pretty lost without. I would like to give back to this forum and others instead of always asking and taking. I feel I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous...lol so I will leave that to you and the other experts on this forum. Thanks for listening and allowing me to share on this platform I feel privileged to be able to do so.
Sorry to say this but, coming from a mechanic, you need a new mechanic.
He replaced a list of crap that never fixed your issue and then thought he was some chemist telling you to add different stuff.
Even Lucas doesn't reccomend that HD stuff. For 30 weight and below they reccomend their synthetic additive which has a lighter viscosity.
Independent AMSOIL Dealer, Contact me to get the world's best oil for prices lower than brands like Mobil1 and Royal Purple!
GoldMedalSyntheticOils.com
He replaced a list of crap that never fixed your issue and then thought he was some chemist telling you to add different stuff.
Even Lucas doesn't reccomend that HD stuff. For 30 weight and below they reccomend their synthetic additive which has a lighter viscosity.
Independent AMSOIL Dealer, Contact me to get the world's best oil for prices lower than brands like Mobil1 and Royal Purple!
GoldMedalSyntheticOils.com
shawn99corolla - So many parts were replaced without being diagnosed first, it makes it a bit difficult to try and track down why your car is misfiring on one cylinder. However, it seems to be temperature related, as you've said the car runs better after warming up, correct?
shawn99corolla - If the valves weren't seating correctly in the number three cylinder, this can be diagnosed with a compression test as the compression in that cylinder will be considerably lower than the others. However, it would seem to me that if that were the case, the engine would be misfiring all the time and not just when it's cold.
I have a very strong suspicion that something is going on here that is temperature related. When an engine is cold, it's harder for the ignition system to get electricity to flow to the spark plugs as there is more electrical resistance. After the engine warms up, there is less electrical resistance. This is one of the reasons a warmed up engine runs better than a cold engine. After 146,000 miles, it is a good possibility that the ignition coil for the #3 cylinder is not functioning properly anymore and needs replacing. The ignition coil provides electricity to the spark plug to make that spark plug fire normally. When the ignition coil is weak, it can cause the misfire your engine is experiencing.
The P0303 trouble code indicates the #3 cylinder is misfiring -
http://engine-codes.com/p0303_toyota.html
- Faulty spark plug 3
- Clogged or faulty fuel injector 3
- Faulty ignition coil 3
- Fuel injector 3 harness is open or shorted
- Fuel injector 3 circuit poor electrical connection
- Ignition coil 3 harness is open or shorted
- Ignition coil 3 circuit poor electrical connection
- Insufficient cylinder 3 compression
- Incorrect fuel pressure
- Intake air leak
Read more: http://engine-codes.com/p0303_toyota.html#ixzz3HKly7OaF
It would appear by the possible causes listed above, that the person working on your car looked at this list for the P0303 trouble code and just started replacing parts, taking guesses, instead of diagnosing.
To diagnose if the #3 ignition coil is weak and causing the misfire, swap the ignition coil from say cylinder #3 with cylinder #4 and if the misfire now moves to cylinder #4, we know we have a weak ignition coil that needs replacing. Suggest this to the person working on your car that is trying to rectify this problem.
Here is a link to an article I found that will also help you with this problem -
Diagnosing a Toyota Corolla Misfire -
http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/toyota/1.8/corolla-misfire-case-study-1
I hope this helps you out. Keep me posted and we'll see if we can get this problem figured out for you. :thumbsup:
I have a very strong suspicion that something is going on here that is temperature related. When an engine is cold, it's harder for the ignition system to get electricity to flow to the spark plugs as there is more electrical resistance. After the engine warms up, there is less electrical resistance. This is one of the reasons a warmed up engine runs better than a cold engine. After 146,000 miles, it is a good possibility that the ignition coil for the #3 cylinder is not functioning properly anymore and needs replacing. The ignition coil provides electricity to the spark plug to make that spark plug fire normally. When the ignition coil is weak, it can cause the misfire your engine is experiencing.
The P0303 trouble code indicates the #3 cylinder is misfiring -
http://engine-codes.com/p0303_toyota.html
- Faulty spark plug 3
- Clogged or faulty fuel injector 3
- Faulty ignition coil 3
- Fuel injector 3 harness is open or shorted
- Fuel injector 3 circuit poor electrical connection
- Ignition coil 3 harness is open or shorted
- Ignition coil 3 circuit poor electrical connection
- Insufficient cylinder 3 compression
- Incorrect fuel pressure
- Intake air leak
Read more: http://engine-codes.com/p0303_toyota.html#ixzz3HKly7OaF
It would appear by the possible causes listed above, that the person working on your car looked at this list for the P0303 trouble code and just started replacing parts, taking guesses, instead of diagnosing.
To diagnose if the #3 ignition coil is weak and causing the misfire, swap the ignition coil from say cylinder #3 with cylinder #4 and if the misfire now moves to cylinder #4, we know we have a weak ignition coil that needs replacing. Suggest this to the person working on your car that is trying to rectify this problem.
Here is a link to an article I found that will also help you with this problem -
Diagnosing a Toyota Corolla Misfire -
http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/toyota/1.8/corolla-misfire-case-study-1
I hope this helps you out. Keep me posted and we'll see if we can get this problem figured out for you. :thumbsup:
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Thanks Scott lots of good information here. Can I swap the #3 coil pack with #4 coil pack myself to see if misfires moves from cylinder #3 to #4? Do I just remove the coil pack from cylinder #3 and insert into cylinder #4 and cylinder #4 insert to cylinder #3? Do I also have to switch the wiring on the distributor cap as well or can I just swap the ignition coil packs without messing with the wires on distributor cap?
Your car isn't coil on plug. So there is only one ignition coil for all 4 cylinders, so that isn't it. Not sure about the possibility of a coil pack missing on only one cylinder, but it might be possible if it was physically damaged or manufactured improperly somehow.
I'd remove the ignition coil, look for physical damage, and test it with a multimeter.
I'd remove the ignition coil, look for physical damage, and test it with a multimeter.
Alright, I did some research, what year is your Corolla again?
1998 and 1999 used an ignition coil that is nick-named waste-spark ignition. What that means, is that Cylinders 1 and 3 fire at the same time (but only either 1 or 3 is on the power stroke, the other at the end of the exhaust stroke), and Cylinders 2 and 4 fire at the same time. If you are talking about spark plug wires, then chances are, this is your ignition system.
2000+ went to coil-on-plug ignition. These have very short spark plug wires that are integrated with the coil assembly (you won't see spark plug wires coming from the head, you'll just see a wiring harness plugging into each of the four coils).
If you have a '99 or older, the spark plug ignition coil isn't the issue or you would see the misfire in two cylinders.
If you have a 2000+, do what Scott said. Swap the ignition coil between 3 and 4 (DO NOT SWAP THE WIRING), and see if the misfire now goes to #4. If it does, then the ignition coil is bad.
Now I'm wondering why your mechanic said he replaced the distributor cap, as these engines are distributorless... he might have been ripping you off unless you misunderstood him.
1998 and 1999 used an ignition coil that is nick-named waste-spark ignition. What that means, is that Cylinders 1 and 3 fire at the same time (but only either 1 or 3 is on the power stroke, the other at the end of the exhaust stroke), and Cylinders 2 and 4 fire at the same time. If you are talking about spark plug wires, then chances are, this is your ignition system.
2000+ went to coil-on-plug ignition. These have very short spark plug wires that are integrated with the coil assembly (you won't see spark plug wires coming from the head, you'll just see a wiring harness plugging into each of the four coils).
If you have a '99 or older, the spark plug ignition coil isn't the issue or you would see the misfire in two cylinders.
If you have a 2000+, do what Scott said. Swap the ignition coil between 3 and 4 (DO NOT SWAP THE WIRING), and see if the misfire now goes to #4. If it does, then the ignition coil is bad.
Now I'm wondering why your mechanic said he replaced the distributor cap, as these engines are distributorless... he might have been ripping you off unless you misunderstood him.
Mr.Kopoian
Sorry I misspoke/misunderstood. Its a 1999 Toyota Corolla with ignition coil no distributor. I clearly don't know what I am talking about so just to be sure please click on links below to see pictures of my engine setup. Let me know what you recommend after verifying my ignition setup below:
http://oi60.tinypic.com/eg8e21.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/157k50l.jpg
Thank you!
Sorry I misspoke/misunderstood. Its a 1999 Toyota Corolla with ignition coil no distributor. I clearly don't know what I am talking about so just to be sure please click on links below to see pictures of my engine setup. Let me know what you recommend after verifying my ignition setup below:
http://oi60.tinypic.com/eg8e21.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/157k50l.jpg
Thank you!
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Yup, it's waste-spark ignition. Most companies did this before the move to coil-on-plug.
Usually when these die out, you'll get a misfire on two cylinders; however, the connection between the Cylinder #3 post and the coil itself may be the issue. Do this:
Label each spark plug wire 1, 2, 3, and 4 (1 is closest to the drive belt, 4 is closest to the transmission) where it goes into the coil packs. On that same label, write whether it goes on the left or right ignition coil, and on the left or right post. Then label the 4-pin connection on the coil pack for which cylinders it belongs to. This is important. If you mix up any of this wiring, you are going to put the engine out of firing order and it will run rough, if it runs at all. If you don't want to label, you can use the picture you dropped here as a reference of how it all goes back together, but I make a habit of labeling items regardless.
Disconnect everything, swap out the two ignition coils, and plug everything back in where it belongs at the same location, then fire up the engine. If there is an issue with the #3 post on that particular ignition coil, then the misfire should move to cylinder #1 when you swap them. If that happens, replace the ignition coil that is now firing cylinder #1. If the misfire stays on cylinder #3, then the coils are not the problem.
Usually when these die out, you'll get a misfire on two cylinders; however, the connection between the Cylinder #3 post and the coil itself may be the issue. Do this:
Label each spark plug wire 1, 2, 3, and 4 (1 is closest to the drive belt, 4 is closest to the transmission) where it goes into the coil packs. On that same label, write whether it goes on the left or right ignition coil, and on the left or right post. Then label the 4-pin connection on the coil pack for which cylinders it belongs to. This is important. If you mix up any of this wiring, you are going to put the engine out of firing order and it will run rough, if it runs at all. If you don't want to label, you can use the picture you dropped here as a reference of how it all goes back together, but I make a habit of labeling items regardless.
Disconnect everything, swap out the two ignition coils, and plug everything back in where it belongs at the same location, then fire up the engine. If there is an issue with the #3 post on that particular ignition coil, then the misfire should move to cylinder #1 when you swap them. If that happens, replace the ignition coil that is now firing cylinder #1. If the misfire stays on cylinder #3, then the coils are not the problem.
Ehh :cry:, the cables are only long enough to fit the cylinder it was designed for. The cables come numbered 1,2,3,4 and do not reach any other cylinders so I can't swap them. If you look closely at the pic below you will see each ignition coil is numbered and the wiring attached to it will only reach the cylinder it was numbered to go to:
http://oi57.tinypic.com/jza7ud.jpg (zoom in to see the numbers)
How long will the engine last with a misfire on one cylinder? Am I exasperating the problem if I continue to drive? I would also like to add when I first start the car in the morning there is a smell of gas coming from exhaust pipe but the smell goes away after the car warms up. Possibly running rich due to misfire? It is normal for the car to run a little rich when you first start it in the morning? There is also a faint smell of gas in the engine oil and I am thinking all of these symptoms are related to the engine misfire issue but I am not sure. Do you have any other suggestions or feedback?
Thank you Mr. Kopoian and again I am very grateful for all your help.
http://oi57.tinypic.com/jza7ud.jpg (zoom in to see the numbers)
How long will the engine last with a misfire on one cylinder? Am I exasperating the problem if I continue to drive? I would also like to add when I first start the car in the morning there is a smell of gas coming from exhaust pipe but the smell goes away after the car warms up. Possibly running rich due to misfire? It is normal for the car to run a little rich when you first start it in the morning? There is also a faint smell of gas in the engine oil and I am thinking all of these symptoms are related to the engine misfire issue but I am not sure. Do you have any other suggestions or feedback?
Thank you Mr. Kopoian and again I am very grateful for all your help.
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You can go to an automotive junkyard in your area and get a set of used spark plug wires for a very low price and you can use them to diagnose the ignition coil. If you are unaware of any, this website will find them in your area for you. You can even buy a used ignition coil for a low price and try that.
http://www.Car-Part.com
Yes, driving a vehicle with a misfiring cylinder can cause engine damage, as the fuel in that cylinder is not being ignited and will slip past the piston rings, down into the engine and the oil, ruining the lubricating ability of the oil. This will cause accelerated engine wear.
Unburned fuel from that cylinder will also be pumped into the exhaust and into the catalytic convertor, causing it to fail. Catalytic convertors are usually pretty expensive. If you are smelling fuel in the exhaust and in the oil, that is really, really excessive.
http://www.Car-Part.com
Yes, driving a vehicle with a misfiring cylinder can cause engine damage, as the fuel in that cylinder is not being ignited and will slip past the piston rings, down into the engine and the oil, ruining the lubricating ability of the oil. This will cause accelerated engine wear.
Unburned fuel from that cylinder will also be pumped into the exhaust and into the catalytic convertor, causing it to fail. Catalytic convertors are usually pretty expensive. If you are smelling fuel in the exhaust and in the oil, that is really, really excessive.
At this point I have no choice but to drive it as is as long as I can or find a good used engine and swap it. I am just not willing to throw any more money or parts at it. Thanks to the both of you for all your help. I have learned quite a bit from the both of you. I will know what to look for next time I purchase a car. This has been an expensive experience.
This seems like a good deal? Any thoughts on swapping the engine:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/130932692447?fits=Make:Toyota|Model:Corolla
http://m.ebay.com/itm/130932692447?fits=Make:Toyota|Model:Corolla