2014 Corolla - Orange Peel
- Thread starter newcorollaowner
- Start date
- Status
Consumer's Original Complaint :
Paint has severe orange peel all over the entire vehicle.
I bought a 2014 Corolla LE and noticed the paint has severe orange peel over the entire vehicle and I've been to the dealership at leas 3*4 times and
keep getting different reasons. The first was it's the texture of the paint which I always thought paint was supposed to be smooth not textured. The second
time it's rock/chip guard in the paint itself which I've never heard of either I've heard of a clear film for that, that's on the rockers and sometimes on the
front of the vehicle not in the paint itself and all over the entire car, and the last time it's the characteristics of the paint. Excuse after excuse and they still
haven't offered to do anything about or make me happy with the car!
Consumer's Desired Resolution:
I want them to buy the car back with 100% credit and get me into a car I wanted when I got this one.
BBB Processing
09/02/2014 web BBB Complaint Received by BBB
09/02/2014 QQ BBB Complaint Reviewed by BBBOperator
09/02/2014 Otto EMAIL Send acknowledgement to Consumer
09/02/2014 Otto EMAIL Inform Business of Complaint
09/04/2014 WEB BBB RECEIVE BUSINESS RESPONSE : Contact Name and Title: Les Winrow Service Mgr
Contact Phone: 910*345*1150
Contact Email: lwinrow@opetersontoyota.com
We have compared the Customers vehicle with the Customer to every other New Vehicle on the lot the paint texture is a Characteristic of the
Vehicle and the pictures and complaint has been forwarded to Toyota and the case is now in the hands of the Regional Director of Southeast Toyota.
Paint has severe orange peel all over the entire vehicle.
I bought a 2014 Corolla LE and noticed the paint has severe orange peel over the entire vehicle and I've been to the dealership at leas 3*4 times and
keep getting different reasons. The first was it's the texture of the paint which I always thought paint was supposed to be smooth not textured. The second
time it's rock/chip guard in the paint itself which I've never heard of either I've heard of a clear film for that, that's on the rockers and sometimes on the
front of the vehicle not in the paint itself and all over the entire car, and the last time it's the characteristics of the paint. Excuse after excuse and they still
haven't offered to do anything about or make me happy with the car!
Consumer's Desired Resolution:
I want them to buy the car back with 100% credit and get me into a car I wanted when I got this one.
BBB Processing
09/02/2014 web BBB Complaint Received by BBB
09/02/2014 QQ BBB Complaint Reviewed by BBBOperator
09/02/2014 Otto EMAIL Send acknowledgement to Consumer
09/02/2014 Otto EMAIL Inform Business of Complaint
09/04/2014 WEB BBB RECEIVE BUSINESS RESPONSE : Contact Name and Title: Les Winrow Service Mgr
Contact Phone: 910*345*1150
Contact Email: lwinrow@opetersontoyota.com
We have compared the Customers vehicle with the Customer to every other New Vehicle on the lot the paint texture is a Characteristic of the
Vehicle and the pictures and complaint has been forwarded to Toyota and the case is now in the hands of the Regional Director of Southeast Toyota.
Now this is the way a black Corolla's paint job should look!
I sure don't see any, "Texture", on this Corolla, or any all-out orange peel!
This factory paint job looks smooth as glass, the way it should be! Plus this car is black! :thumbsup: You are being lied to by these people, again! Imagine that!
Here is the thread link -> http://www.corollaforum.com/showthread.php?t=2754
zambrotta
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Jakarta
Posts: 3
Hi Scott,
I own Corolla 2013, still original and never modification before as I get second hand from friend of mine at office. Thank you
I sure don't see any, "Texture", on this Corolla, or any all-out orange peel!
This factory paint job looks smooth as glass, the way it should be! Plus this car is black! :thumbsup: You are being lied to by these people, again! Imagine that!
Here is the thread link -> http://www.corollaforum.com/showthread.php?t=2754
zambrotta
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Jakarta
Posts: 3
Hi Scott,
I own Corolla 2013, still original and never modification before as I get second hand from friend of mine at office. Thank you
So all new Toyota's have "Texture" In the paint? Really? Where?! Here are some photo's of other 2014 black Corolla's I found on the Internet by just searching --> Pictures, 2014 Corolla, black.
Here is a blue one. Wow, look at that smooth as glass "texture"! That, "texture" sure looks terrible, eh? :laughing:
You be sure to prevail over these people that are lying to you and trying to rip you off! Just because a defect in a paint job is supposedly common, that doesn't make it okay! It just means their paint jobs are terrible, and you don't have to accept it!
That's like patients going to a hospital and 90% of them dying, with the Doctors giving the excuse, "Well most of the patients that come here, die. It's normal"! :no:
Here is a blue one. Wow, look at that smooth as glass "texture"! That, "texture" sure looks terrible, eh? :laughing:
You be sure to prevail over these people that are lying to you and trying to rip you off! Just because a defect in a paint job is supposedly common, that doesn't make it okay! It just means their paint jobs are terrible, and you don't have to accept it!
That's like patients going to a hospital and 90% of them dying, with the Doctors giving the excuse, "Well most of the patients that come here, die. It's normal"! :no:
Toyota Corolla Paint Problems -
http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/10114/toyota/corolla/toyota-corolla-paint-problems
http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/10114/toyota/corolla/toyota-corolla-paint-problems
Better Business Bureau first, then if that doesn't get the desired result, the Office of Consumer Affairs. Google it for your area.
But when I found all those pictures of 2014 Corolla's with smooth as glass, super shiny paint vs. your car, I thought, "I have to post these for newcorollaowner!"
These scoundrels are lying to you!
But when I found all those pictures of 2014 Corolla's with smooth as glass, super shiny paint vs. your car, I thought, "I have to post these for newcorollaowner!"
These scoundrels are lying to you!
I know I talked to the dealer in some of the photos Fred Anderson they said the dealership here is lying said the paint should be smooth not textured like the dealership I bought mine is trying to say said there car's are smooth and clear as glass. I'm filing a complaint with the attorney general here with there automobile complaint division.
*
Consumer's Original Complaint :
Paint has severe orange peel all over the entire vehicle.
I bought a 2014 Corolla LE and noticed the paint has severe orange peel over the entire vehicle and I've been to the dealership at leas 3-4 times and keep getting different reasons. The first was it's the texture of the paint which I always thought paint was supposed to be smooth not textured. The second time it's rock/chip guard in the paint itself which I've never heard of either I've heard of a clear film for that, that's on the rockers and sometimes on the front of the vehicle not in the paint itself and all over the entire car, and the last time it's the characteristics of the paint. Excuse after excuse and they still haven't offered to do anything about or make me happy with the car!
*
Consumer's Desired Resolution:
I want them to buy the car back with 100% credit and get me into a car I wanted when I got this one.
*
BBB Processing
*
09/02/2014* *web*BBB*Complaint Received by BBB
09/02/2014* *QQ*BBB*Complaint Reviewed by BBBOperator
09/02/2014* *Otto*EMAIL*Send acknowledgement to Consumer
09/02/2014* *Otto*EMAIL*Inform Business of Complaint
09/04/2014* *WEB*BBB*RECEIVE BUSINESS RESPONSE : Contact Name and Title: Les Winrow Service Mgr
*Contact Phone: 910-345-1150
*Contact Email: lwinrow@opetersontoyota.com
*We have compared the Customers vehicle with the Customer to every other New Vehicle on the lot the paint texture is a Characteristic of the Vehicle and the pictures and complaint has been forwarded to Toyota and the case is now in the hands of the Regional Director of Southeast Toyota.
09/04/2014* *QQ*EMAIL*Forward Business response to Consumer
09/04/2014* **BBB*MORE INFO RECEIVED FROM THE CONSUMER : Just because other car's have it doesn't mean there supposed to there no such thing as characteristics of paint or texture the paint should be smooth and clear any way you look at it. The problem is the average consumer doesn't know what orange peel is to notice if I knew the car looked like this I would've never bought this car. Either I want the paint the way it's supposed to look or buy the car back 100% and get another car or just buy the car back 100% and let me go somewhere else!
09/05/2014* *WEB*BBB*RECEIVED CONSUMER REBUTTAL : (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
*Vehicle paint isn't supposed to be textured it's supposed to be smooth. Its orange peel plain and simple the paint is rippled, cloudy and hazy not clear as glass like paint is supposed to be just an excuse not to do anything about it. If I was to ever need body work and paint work how can they blend and match texture to texture? *Ripple to ripple? Hazy to hazy? And cloudy to cloudy? *Bottom line is they can't!!
Here's my response and refusal of the lies there telling me
Consumer's Original Complaint :
Paint has severe orange peel all over the entire vehicle.
I bought a 2014 Corolla LE and noticed the paint has severe orange peel over the entire vehicle and I've been to the dealership at leas 3-4 times and keep getting different reasons. The first was it's the texture of the paint which I always thought paint was supposed to be smooth not textured. The second time it's rock/chip guard in the paint itself which I've never heard of either I've heard of a clear film for that, that's on the rockers and sometimes on the front of the vehicle not in the paint itself and all over the entire car, and the last time it's the characteristics of the paint. Excuse after excuse and they still haven't offered to do anything about or make me happy with the car!
*
Consumer's Desired Resolution:
I want them to buy the car back with 100% credit and get me into a car I wanted when I got this one.
*
BBB Processing
*
09/02/2014* *web*BBB*Complaint Received by BBB
09/02/2014* *QQ*BBB*Complaint Reviewed by BBBOperator
09/02/2014* *Otto*EMAIL*Send acknowledgement to Consumer
09/02/2014* *Otto*EMAIL*Inform Business of Complaint
09/04/2014* *WEB*BBB*RECEIVE BUSINESS RESPONSE : Contact Name and Title: Les Winrow Service Mgr
*Contact Phone: 910-345-1150
*Contact Email: lwinrow@opetersontoyota.com
*We have compared the Customers vehicle with the Customer to every other New Vehicle on the lot the paint texture is a Characteristic of the Vehicle and the pictures and complaint has been forwarded to Toyota and the case is now in the hands of the Regional Director of Southeast Toyota.
09/04/2014* *QQ*EMAIL*Forward Business response to Consumer
09/04/2014* **BBB*MORE INFO RECEIVED FROM THE CONSUMER : Just because other car's have it doesn't mean there supposed to there no such thing as characteristics of paint or texture the paint should be smooth and clear any way you look at it. The problem is the average consumer doesn't know what orange peel is to notice if I knew the car looked like this I would've never bought this car. Either I want the paint the way it's supposed to look or buy the car back 100% and get another car or just buy the car back 100% and let me go somewhere else!
09/05/2014* *WEB*BBB*RECEIVED CONSUMER REBUTTAL : (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
*Vehicle paint isn't supposed to be textured it's supposed to be smooth. Its orange peel plain and simple the paint is rippled, cloudy and hazy not clear as glass like paint is supposed to be just an excuse not to do anything about it. If I was to ever need body work and paint work how can they blend and match texture to texture? *Ripple to ripple? Hazy to hazy? And cloudy to cloudy? *Bottom line is they can't!!
Here's my response and refusal of the lies there telling me
Last edited:
From the pictures posted at the start of the thread, I think NewCorollaOwner has a case and hope something gets resolved.
You can't really go by the pictures Scott posted off the Internet, though.
I can't tell you how many times when we were used car shopping for my son, I would find cars that looked perfect in terms of finish, and when we drove out to look at the car, there were dings/scratches/peeling - but the angle was right to hide those. Or the car looked like it had blemishes and it ended up just being reflections in the paint ...
OTOH - I've walked the Toyota dealerships and seen maybe a FEW cars with orange peel - but by no means the majority and generally not as bad as the pictures at the start of the thread ...
Anyway ...
You can't really go by the pictures Scott posted off the Internet, though.
I can't tell you how many times when we were used car shopping for my son, I would find cars that looked perfect in terms of finish, and when we drove out to look at the car, there were dings/scratches/peeling - but the angle was right to hide those. Or the car looked like it had blemishes and it ended up just being reflections in the paint ...
OTOH - I've walked the Toyota dealerships and seen maybe a FEW cars with orange peel - but by no means the majority and generally not as bad as the pictures at the start of the thread ...
Anyway ...
I agree. Internet pictures, even if you could establish that they haven’t been photoshoped, don’t prove much. Furthermore, using them would only make you enter in the dealer game by debating his argument (all Toyotas are like that) instead of yours. So what if all Toyotas are like that? It would be a defect nonetheless. Stay focused!
For what it is worth, I would say to newcorollaowner :
You also have to be focused on what you are complaining about: poor quality paint. When you state that you want to be put in the car you “wanted in the first place”, that would arguably be a different complaint: that you were more or less scammed by the dealer to choose this particular unit. Otherwise it could be interpreted against you as more of a buyer remorse case than a paint case (although a decent dealer would have accommodated you on this sole motif, albeit at some losses for you). Don’t hesitate to make two complaints eventually, and use one as a lever for the other.
What you actually want is 100% reimbursement for the car, as a simple paint correction would devaluate it and they already refused it anyway (don’t insist on that one since they could end up offering that, which is not what you necessarily want). The “100%” won’t happen, as you have already used the car, but later in the process you could “kindly” accept a reasonable % of credit toward a new unit. But the most focused way to proceed is asking for reimbursement. You could take care of any car you want after that!
I don’t think you’ll go far with BBB, as they merely relay responses between business and customers. In the worst case for the dealer, he loses some BBB ratings, granted he is a member in the first place. It was a necessary step though, but you need to keep building your case further, as if you were ready to go to court (even if you’re not) and deal with Toyota directly:
-You have to document your paint case: get 2-3 independent body shops reports on its condition (not evaluations to repair it).
-Be prepared to answer questions (better, forward the information):
- When and how you noticed the paint defect after delivery of the car;
-When did you first complaint to the dealer, what was the answer;
-Other requests (when? what?) you made to the dealer about that issue, what were the answers;
-And the killing one, which is bound to happen: why didn’t you notice it at delivery (that’s where a complaint about undue pressure from the dealer might come handy!)
So stay focused: it’s not that you don’t like the car anymore, it’s that you want to be reimburse for an unsatisfactory defective product. Of course all this is a RPA (royal pain in the…) process, but you might end up successful and happier!
For what it is worth, I would say to newcorollaowner :
You also have to be focused on what you are complaining about: poor quality paint. When you state that you want to be put in the car you “wanted in the first place”, that would arguably be a different complaint: that you were more or less scammed by the dealer to choose this particular unit. Otherwise it could be interpreted against you as more of a buyer remorse case than a paint case (although a decent dealer would have accommodated you on this sole motif, albeit at some losses for you). Don’t hesitate to make two complaints eventually, and use one as a lever for the other.
What you actually want is 100% reimbursement for the car, as a simple paint correction would devaluate it and they already refused it anyway (don’t insist on that one since they could end up offering that, which is not what you necessarily want). The “100%” won’t happen, as you have already used the car, but later in the process you could “kindly” accept a reasonable % of credit toward a new unit. But the most focused way to proceed is asking for reimbursement. You could take care of any car you want after that!
I don’t think you’ll go far with BBB, as they merely relay responses between business and customers. In the worst case for the dealer, he loses some BBB ratings, granted he is a member in the first place. It was a necessary step though, but you need to keep building your case further, as if you were ready to go to court (even if you’re not) and deal with Toyota directly:
-You have to document your paint case: get 2-3 independent body shops reports on its condition (not evaluations to repair it).
-Be prepared to answer questions (better, forward the information):
- When and how you noticed the paint defect after delivery of the car;
-When did you first complaint to the dealer, what was the answer;
-Other requests (when? what?) you made to the dealer about that issue, what were the answers;
-And the killing one, which is bound to happen: why didn’t you notice it at delivery (that’s where a complaint about undue pressure from the dealer might come handy!)
So stay focused: it’s not that you don’t like the car anymore, it’s that you want to be reimburse for an unsatisfactory defective product. Of course all this is a RPA (royal pain in the…) process, but you might end up successful and happier!
jolly - # 1 - The pictures I posted show Corolla after Corolla with paint as smooth as glass. No dull, orange peel look.
# 2. The point of getting the Better Business Bureau involved is they try to remedy the situation for the consumer and it most certainly does apply pressure on the dealership as their Better Business Bureau rating affects their business. No business wants a poor Better Business Bureau rating, as that can reduce the sales of their vehicles.
# 3. If that doesn't do the trick, then the Office of Consumer Affairs is next.
# 4 - I wholeheartedly agree with your that newcorollaowner should be focusing on the defective paint issue, not that they didn't really want the car and in the eyes of Toyota is just using the paint as an excuse to get the car they preferred. I think going down that road will lead to newcorrollaowner getting their case denied.
newcorollaowner - I agree with jolly; stay focused on the defective paint issue, otherwise it just looks like you are trying to get the, "car you really wanted", and are just using the paint as an excuse, which greatly weakens your case.
I personally feel you have been a victim here because the car you bought worth thousands and thousands of dollars, with defective paint is not going to be worth as much when you go to sell the car or trade it in. You can prevail with this, just don't give in!
# 2. The point of getting the Better Business Bureau involved is they try to remedy the situation for the consumer and it most certainly does apply pressure on the dealership as their Better Business Bureau rating affects their business. No business wants a poor Better Business Bureau rating, as that can reduce the sales of their vehicles.
# 3. If that doesn't do the trick, then the Office of Consumer Affairs is next.
# 4 - I wholeheartedly agree with your that newcorollaowner should be focusing on the defective paint issue, not that they didn't really want the car and in the eyes of Toyota is just using the paint as an excuse to get the car they preferred. I think going down that road will lead to newcorrollaowner getting their case denied.
newcorollaowner - I agree with jolly; stay focused on the defective paint issue, otherwise it just looks like you are trying to get the, "car you really wanted", and are just using the paint as an excuse, which greatly weakens your case.
I personally feel you have been a victim here because the car you bought worth thousands and thousands of dollars, with defective paint is not going to be worth as much when you go to sell the car or trade it in. You can prevail with this, just don't give in!
Right ! Most of us here are already satisfied Corolla owners including the paint ! Point is that we don't have to care about this argument since, even if it was true - which is obviously not the case - it is still a defect. It would be like GM refusing to repair an ignition switch beacause all GM are like that ! :shifty:
A precision : The BBB doesn't work for the consumer (nor the business !) and does nothing special to resolve the situation. It act as an intermediate, so that both parties could talk in a civilised way. Now the fact that it is public certainly apply pressure on the business but as far as ratings, they aren't affected as long as the buisiness participate in the process (which means answering the complaint, as unsatisfactory this answer might be). Eventually, if both parties agree, BBB may offer mediation or arbitrator services for a fee, but you could do that on your own anyway. That's all BBB can do since its not a legal office or court. Office of consumer affairs is antoher story !
A precision : The BBB doesn't work for the consumer (nor the business !) and does nothing special to resolve the situation. It act as an intermediate, so that both parties could talk in a civilised way. Now the fact that it is public certainly apply pressure on the business but as far as ratings, they aren't affected as long as the buisiness participate in the process (which means answering the complaint, as unsatisfactory this answer might be). Eventually, if both parties agree, BBB may offer mediation or arbitrator services for a fee, but you could do that on your own anyway. That's all BBB can do since its not a legal office or court. Office of consumer affairs is antoher story !
Last edited:
Oh I agree with you.
By the way, so you don't weaken your case, be very careful what you say here publicly, as Toyota Inc. could be watching.
I say this because I Googl'ed, "Toyota, Defective Paint", and it found this thread, which means Toyota Inc. can find it too and it's not uncommon for companies to do that.
By the way, so you don't weaken your case, be very careful what you say here publicly, as Toyota Inc. could be watching.
I say this because I Googl'ed, "Toyota, Defective Paint", and it found this thread, which means Toyota Inc. can find it too and it's not uncommon for companies to do that.
No - not really. I'm not trying to get in a urinary olympics here, but the first picture in the showroom (the 2013) looked a bit textured to me (likely either the interior lights or my computer screen or the resolution of the photo - I'm not saying the car had bad paint - but I can't tell from the photo). The other pictures were probably 10-15 feet from the car. Orange peel will not show up at that distance, and really only shows well with off-angle lighting and off-angle viewing. (For example looking down the side of the car from the rear with light hitting from the front corner of the car on the same side).
It can be captured very well in photos (as newcorollaowner did originally.) It can also be hidden very well.
(Not really fair, and bad if Toyota is watching this thread - but http://www.corollaforum.com/album.php?albumid=69&pictureid=323 - smooth as glass finish here. http://www.corollaforum.com/album.php?albumid=69&pictureid=319 - not so much here - but it is the same car and even same side of the car, just a different angle and the light reflects differently - you get my point.)
Yes - this is the key thing. As I've said - I've walked other dealer lots and MOST of the cars looked great, but a few had significant orange peel. On a new car, your reaction is "WTF - demo, wrecked, salvage - errrm, only 300 miles on the odometer. I guess not". Now - drive that car for 40K miles and try to sell/trade it. The savvy buyer's reaction is going to be "Well - the carfax is clean, but factory paint doesn't look like that - the cars been repainted, probably badly by someone in their garage - so since it isn't on the carfax, who knows if it has frame damage (I know there is no frame, but that is still the term) - I'll offer you $3K-$5K below book and take a chance on it." THAT is what you are looking to make up with the dealer if they won't do anything else for you.
It can be captured very well in photos (as newcorollaowner did originally.) It can also be hidden very well.
(Not really fair, and bad if Toyota is watching this thread - but http://www.corollaforum.com/album.php?albumid=69&pictureid=323 - smooth as glass finish here. http://www.corollaforum.com/album.php?albumid=69&pictureid=319 - not so much here - but it is the same car and even same side of the car, just a different angle and the light reflects differently - you get my point.)
Yes - this is the key thing. As I've said - I've walked other dealer lots and MOST of the cars looked great, but a few had significant orange peel. On a new car, your reaction is "WTF - demo, wrecked, salvage - errrm, only 300 miles on the odometer. I guess not". Now - drive that car for 40K miles and try to sell/trade it. The savvy buyer's reaction is going to be "Well - the carfax is clean, but factory paint doesn't look like that - the cars been repainted, probably badly by someone in their garage - so since it isn't on the carfax, who knows if it has frame damage (I know there is no frame, but that is still the term) - I'll offer you $3K-$5K below book and take a chance on it." THAT is what you are looking to make up with the dealer if they won't do anything else for you.
What eventually, you will want to bring up with Toyota is essentially, you took a double-hit here ...
I'm in a different situation a bit than you are. Personally - I like the LE better than the S. If I wanted the S, I really don't care too much about rear disc brakes, so I would likely look at the S Base - which is only about $300-$500 more than the LE Base (at purchase time - I couldn't buy an LE and then six months later say "I've got an extra $500 saved, I want to swap my LE for an S model". I can add my own alloys (as you did, to either car).
I tend to keep my cars until they are undriveable - so I don't really look at trading, and if I liked the LE, but wanted fog lights - I can add those later for $250 when the money is available. If I wanted the leather side bolsters and the instrument cluster in the S, I would save up enough money to qualify for that originally.
But for MOST owners - It isn't a huge hit to take the LE now, and trade into an S Plus down the road when finances improve. But in your case, you not only are likely to be upside down normally when you trade the car, but you also will (potentially) lose money on the trade-in due to the paint condition.
I'm in a different situation a bit than you are. Personally - I like the LE better than the S. If I wanted the S, I really don't care too much about rear disc brakes, so I would likely look at the S Base - which is only about $300-$500 more than the LE Base (at purchase time - I couldn't buy an LE and then six months later say "I've got an extra $500 saved, I want to swap my LE for an S model". I can add my own alloys (as you did, to either car).
I tend to keep my cars until they are undriveable - so I don't really look at trading, and if I liked the LE, but wanted fog lights - I can add those later for $250 when the money is available. If I wanted the leather side bolsters and the instrument cluster in the S, I would save up enough money to qualify for that originally.
But for MOST owners - It isn't a huge hit to take the LE now, and trade into an S Plus down the road when finances improve. But in your case, you not only are likely to be upside down normally when you trade the car, but you also will (potentially) lose money on the trade-in due to the paint condition.
I get your point - but it's not the greatest example. You can't look at an ignition switch and see if it is going to fail and shut the engine off at 80 MPH. You SHOULD be able to look at paint on a new car and see if it has orange peel or not.
So in this case - it really does come down to how bad does NCO's car look compared to the "average" Corolla on the new car lot:
So in this case - it really does come down to how bad does NCO's car look compared to the "average" Corolla on the new car lot:
- If the paint is MUCH worse than most of the other (black) Corollas - he definietely should have a case and should get some re-imbursement. As I said - I have seen cars on other lots with paint that was unacceptable to me. Here, it comes down to Jolly's other argument - why wasn't anything said at delivery - i.e. "I want a different one with better paint, or I want X amount reduction in price for the paint quality".
Then again - I've dealt with enough car salesman to know that would go like this: "I want a price reduction for the paint quality" "What do you mean?" "Don't you see all this orange peel?" "No." "The paint looks much worse than the red car over here!" "We can make you a deal on the red car if you want that!" "I don't want the red car, I want the black car with good paint on it." "We'll have another black one on the lot in 2 months, or we can get you another black one at a different dealer for more money - but it will probably have the same paint finish" (Car salesmen are usually liars - and usually more honest than the finance guys.) - If NCO's car is representative of the Corolla's in general - you can't really get Toyota to do much. Now it becomes an issue of if enough people walk away from the dealer lots without purchasing b/c of poor paint quality, maybe QC in the paint shop will improve for the 2015-2016's and they might discount ALL the 2014's to move them out. But that doesn't seem to be the case (unless most buyer's aren't that fussy anymore ...)
Last edited:
Sad thing is the average consumer doesn't even know what orange peel is to even notice and know what it is. The people in the service department doesn't even know what it is so you know most people don't either. If the consumers were more informed about paint and other vehicle issues more people would complain and not buy a car with severe orange peel like mine and force manufacturers to fix the poor paint quality until then customer's like me are stuck with a car with crappie paint.
Last edited:
It frustrates me that the dealership and Toyota think all consumers are stupid and don't know what orange peel is when they see it. I have talked to people on detailing forums saying orange peel is the norm for new vehicles these days. And a consumer who didn't know what orange peel was until they had to get there bumper fixed and painted and asked the body shop why the bumper was so smooth and the rest of the car so rippled looking and they told them because they wet sanded and buffed it to get rid of the orange peel and there's others wanting to start a petition and have people to sign it to make manufacturers fix the poor paint quality issues.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_peel_(effect)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_peel_(effect)#mediaviewer/File:Orange_Peel_Effect.jpg
found this doing a search to see if vehicle paint is supposed to be textured
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_peel_(effect)#mediaviewer/File:Orange_Peel_Effect.jpg
found this doing a search to see if vehicle paint is supposed to be textured
This will come across as mean-spirited and it isn't meant to be, but it might help others, might even help you somehow also.
As I understand it, you wanted an S Plus but didn't qualify for it so they made you get an LE Base.
For me locally on TrueCar, an LE Base is 15,388 and an S Base is 15,605. That is a difference of $217 or roughly $5 per month.
I would think you would have qual'd for either of those, or if not, you could maybe borrow from a family member or do odd jobs or ask for money for Christmas early to cover the $217.
The only thing you would have given up between the S Premium that you wanted and the S Base would be the rear disc brakes (that you didn't get on the LE either) and the 17-inch alloy rims (that you swapped for aftermarket 18's anyway).
OTOH - an S Plus is 16,274 or 886 more than the LE or 669 more than the S Base.
Hindsight is 20/20 - but what it might mean for you is if you can find a new S Base locally (they are hard to find), or a used one with comparable miles (less of a deal), you could maybe trade on that and you would only be out the depreciation/usage on your current vehicle.
Your best bet is still to get a settlement from Toyota for the paint issue and then use that toward the new car. (My point is you are paying a lot for the S Plus for rims and tires if you are going to swap those out anyway.)
(My main point is most of the cost difference between the S and S Plus is rear brakes - which aren't super important, and rims/tires - which you will swap out anyway.
As I understand it, you wanted an S Plus but didn't qualify for it so they made you get an LE Base.
For me locally on TrueCar, an LE Base is 15,388 and an S Base is 15,605. That is a difference of $217 or roughly $5 per month.
I would think you would have qual'd for either of those, or if not, you could maybe borrow from a family member or do odd jobs or ask for money for Christmas early to cover the $217.
The only thing you would have given up between the S Premium that you wanted and the S Base would be the rear disc brakes (that you didn't get on the LE either) and the 17-inch alloy rims (that you swapped for aftermarket 18's anyway).
OTOH - an S Plus is 16,274 or 886 more than the LE or 669 more than the S Base.
Hindsight is 20/20 - but what it might mean for you is if you can find a new S Base locally (they are hard to find), or a used one with comparable miles (less of a deal), you could maybe trade on that and you would only be out the depreciation/usage on your current vehicle.
Your best bet is still to get a settlement from Toyota for the paint issue and then use that toward the new car. (My point is you are paying a lot for the S Plus for rims and tires if you are going to swap those out anyway.)
(My main point is most of the cost difference between the S and S Plus is rear brakes - which aren't super important, and rims/tires - which you will swap out anyway.
Of course it's not SUPPOSED to do that, but it's a question of degree.
Paint ANYTHING with a spray bomb (can).
If you get the can too close, the paint runs and drips. If you get the can perfect, you get a mirror finish. If you get the can too far away (I'm pretty sure) you get orange peel.
The problem is it is a subjective thing. There isn't anymore a "This paint is perfect and this paint fails." Not the best example, but as Eddie Murphy said (paraphrased):
If you're starving and somebody throw you a cracker, you gonna be like this:
"that's the best cracker I ever ate in my life!"
"That ain't no regular cracker, was it?
"What was that, a Saltine?"
"that was delicious."
"That wasn't no Saltine. That was...
"That was a Ritz. That wasn't a Ritz?"
The point is for some customers, regular crackers (severe orange peel) is fine, for others saltines are fine (minor orange peel) and for some only Ritz's are okay (no orange peel).
I agree that it is sad you have to inspect a brand new car these days to make sure the paint is okay, but really that is the new reality ...
Paint ANYTHING with a spray bomb (can).
If you get the can too close, the paint runs and drips. If you get the can perfect, you get a mirror finish. If you get the can too far away (I'm pretty sure) you get orange peel.
The problem is it is a subjective thing. There isn't anymore a "This paint is perfect and this paint fails." Not the best example, but as Eddie Murphy said (paraphrased):
If you're starving and somebody throw you a cracker, you gonna be like this:
"that's the best cracker I ever ate in my life!"
"That ain't no regular cracker, was it?
"What was that, a Saltine?"
"that was delicious."
"That wasn't no Saltine. That was...
"That was a Ritz. That wasn't a Ritz?"
The point is for some customers, regular crackers (severe orange peel) is fine, for others saltines are fine (minor orange peel) and for some only Ritz's are okay (no orange peel).
I agree that it is sad you have to inspect a brand new car these days to make sure the paint is okay, but really that is the new reality ...
I think you didn't asked the question the right way ...
If you ask "Joe's body shop said they could wet sand it and buff it and that will take care of the orange peel" - they will give them the response above.
Tell them - "This car is substandard, and I want it fixed or I will see you in court for compensation. However, I talked to the body shop and they said for $500 (???) they can buff it out and that will take care of the orange peel. That would be less expensive for you than any settlement the court is likely to give me. Normally that would void the paint warranty, but since this issue was caused by you (the manufacturer) and not by me, I want a written statement from you (the manufacturer, not the dealer that might go out of business next week), that the terms of the original warranty are not to be affected by this repair. Send your response to my lawyer at this address and phone number."
If you ask "Joe's body shop said they could wet sand it and buff it and that will take care of the orange peel" - they will give them the response above.
Tell them - "This car is substandard, and I want it fixed or I will see you in court for compensation. However, I talked to the body shop and they said for $500 (???) they can buff it out and that will take care of the orange peel. That would be less expensive for you than any settlement the court is likely to give me. Normally that would void the paint warranty, but since this issue was caused by you (the manufacturer) and not by me, I want a written statement from you (the manufacturer, not the dealer that might go out of business next week), that the terms of the original warranty are not to be affected by this repair. Send your response to my lawyer at this address and phone number."
Per the Manguson Moss Warranty Act, for a warranty to be voided it has to be shown that was was done to the car adversely affected the paint and was the direct cause of the paint failing. If what was done didn't cause the paint to fail, then the warranty can not be voided. Period. That's the law.
You are being lied to so flagrantly and so often, it might be a very good idea to start looking for a lawyer specializing in consumer protection issues, especially for vehicles.
Yes, I know, no one has money laying around to pay an expensive lawyer, which is why many lawyers will work on a contingency basis where they earn a percentage of the award. I am not an lawyer, but when and if Toyota is determined to be at fault, it's my understanding they have to pay all your legal expenses.
I strongly recommend to start looking for a lawyer.
You are being lied to so flagrantly and so often, it might be a very good idea to start looking for a lawyer specializing in consumer protection issues, especially for vehicles.
Yes, I know, no one has money laying around to pay an expensive lawyer, which is why many lawyers will work on a contingency basis where they earn a percentage of the award. I am not an lawyer, but when and if Toyota is determined to be at fault, it's my understanding they have to pay all your legal expenses.
I strongly recommend to start looking for a lawyer.
yea I've found some I'm going to contact tomorrow they all have free consultations plus seen where if I write Toyota about the paint issue and they don't respond within 15 days it can be considered a lemon under the lemon law here, hopefully a lawyer can give me better news and get everything taken care of whether it be fixing the paint my wet sanding and buffing, repainting the car or reimburse me for it and get me another car.
Technically you are correct, but it comes down to interpretation also. If you wet sand and buff the car, you are going to remove SOME (hopefully not much) of the paint. If the paint later fails, Toyota is going to claim it failed because you wet sanded it and you are going to claim it failed b/c it was latently defective and had nothing to do with sanding it. Then it is up to a jury (hopefully) or arbiter to decide - but guess what - Toyota likely has a lot more money to pay for expert witnesses to say wet sanding caused the issue than NCO or the consumer does to say it didn't.
THAT is why basically you want a release of liability from Toyota stating that the paint warranty will remain in force even if you have the car sanded and buffed.
THAT is why basically you want a release of liability from Toyota stating that the paint warranty will remain in force even if you have the car sanded and buffed.
- Status