2014 Corolla - Orange Peel
- Thread starter newcorollaowner
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FIY about OEM automotive paint. (Yeah, it's a long read.)
Almost all factory applied body paint is base coat/clear coat. It is usually applied electrostatically by robots and cured by heat, although some catalyzing agents may be used. Because of government regulations water-based coatings are used now instead of petroleum solvents. Primers and sub-coats are also applied electrostatically, usually by dipping in a bath (e-coat). But whether solvent or water, this liquid is just the vehicle used to deliver the polymers onto the surface to be coated. The real paint is in the solid portion of the formula.
Formulating paint to meet increasing environmental regulations has been, and continues to be, a challenge for paint manufacturers. In the lab, during the development process, it is possible to produce beautiful results. High gloss and DOI (distinction of image) are possible to achieve. Unfortunately, during production in the real world things often don't work as perfectly as planned. There seems to be even less room for imperfection with water-based coatings.
There are many variables in the OEM paint process (eg. temperature, humidity). One of the biggest is the operator. Those of course are usually the robots. They must be expertly programmed for each vehicle body and color, and those programs are continually adjusted. Sometimes when there are problems, the men or woman sprayers working in the booth take over and spray by hand with electrostatic hand guns. This is done usually to augment robots spraying specific areas of the car only. Sometimes it's just to correct a problem, such as thin areas. Sprayers in the booth just spray those spots with enough paint to meet specification. Or they may actually spray parts the robots are missing, for whatever reason, like whole fenders. Naturally, this can caused varied results, depending on the sprayer's ability. Orange peel can be one result.
The factory floor is fraught with opportunities for damage. Cars have their paint damaged in the process. Or there may be other problems with the paint. These problems are often corrected in a paint shop using refinish products. Hoods, fenders, fascias (bumpers) may be touched up or repainted. A car's front or rear fascia may have been sanded and sent thorough the OEM process a second time before being shipped to a dealer.
As you can see there are ample chances for "defects" in the paint process. Added to that, there may be multiple formulations and multiple suppliers for any given color or model car. Those suppliers change all the time, although the vehicle manufacturer (like Toyota) should be able to trace whose paint is on any given car sold. It is usually these paint manufactures who ultimately pay to repaint vehicles under warranty.
Note: I worked for PPG OEM paint in the lab and in production as a rep.
Almost all factory applied body paint is base coat/clear coat. It is usually applied electrostatically by robots and cured by heat, although some catalyzing agents may be used. Because of government regulations water-based coatings are used now instead of petroleum solvents. Primers and sub-coats are also applied electrostatically, usually by dipping in a bath (e-coat). But whether solvent or water, this liquid is just the vehicle used to deliver the polymers onto the surface to be coated. The real paint is in the solid portion of the formula.
Formulating paint to meet increasing environmental regulations has been, and continues to be, a challenge for paint manufacturers. In the lab, during the development process, it is possible to produce beautiful results. High gloss and DOI (distinction of image) are possible to achieve. Unfortunately, during production in the real world things often don't work as perfectly as planned. There seems to be even less room for imperfection with water-based coatings.
There are many variables in the OEM paint process (eg. temperature, humidity). One of the biggest is the operator. Those of course are usually the robots. They must be expertly programmed for each vehicle body and color, and those programs are continually adjusted. Sometimes when there are problems, the men or woman sprayers working in the booth take over and spray by hand with electrostatic hand guns. This is done usually to augment robots spraying specific areas of the car only. Sometimes it's just to correct a problem, such as thin areas. Sprayers in the booth just spray those spots with enough paint to meet specification. Or they may actually spray parts the robots are missing, for whatever reason, like whole fenders. Naturally, this can caused varied results, depending on the sprayer's ability. Orange peel can be one result.
The factory floor is fraught with opportunities for damage. Cars have their paint damaged in the process. Or there may be other problems with the paint. These problems are often corrected in a paint shop using refinish products. Hoods, fenders, fascias (bumpers) may be touched up or repainted. A car's front or rear fascia may have been sanded and sent thorough the OEM process a second time before being shipped to a dealer.
As you can see there are ample chances for "defects" in the paint process. Added to that, there may be multiple formulations and multiple suppliers for any given color or model car. Those suppliers change all the time, although the vehicle manufacturer (like Toyota) should be able to trace whose paint is on any given car sold. It is usually these paint manufactures who ultimately pay to repaint vehicles under warranty.
Note: I worked for PPG OEM paint in the lab and in production as a rep.
I have seen the pictures. But I really can't tell how bad the problem is from a picture. Also, the pictures look a little blurry or indistinct to me. It's hard to take a close picture of something black and glossy. I'm sure Toyota's paint experts, or whomever they get to decide, will have to inspect your car in person.
Black paint is notoriously bad for showing faults. Any car person can tell you that. Problems like orange peel or sags show glaringly. And Toyota may have had a run of black cars that aren't great. Sometimes, if there is enough consumer complaints, a car company might mitigate. But I doubt they will for one case unless it's so bad they can't ignore it. I can tell you of one of my experiences with Honda.
Honda has a problem with some dark blue 2007 Civics, like my trade car. There has been an off and on bulletin at the dealers. The paint was badly deteriorated because of sun exposure. I don't know who's paint it was (hope not PPG), but the car was built in Canada. Honda repainted my car a few months ago to the tune of over $4000. It looked good enough to trade after that. There is hope that Toyota will do something similar in the future with your car, if it's as bad as you believe, but don't count on it.
I have seen some horrendously bad paint on some new cars over the years on different models. They look dull and "orange peeled" like you describe. I would be embarrassed if I were the manufacturer. I think some in the industry are complacent. It could be a big expensive problem if they started accommodating everyone's view. I agree with those who say you should compare your car to same model/color cars. Also keep in mind that all models don't have the same quality of finish. Expensive models get better looking quality paint. Paint is expensive. The industry used to use Mercedes as a standard for major production vehicles. Don't know if they still do.
Black paint is notoriously bad for showing faults. Any car person can tell you that. Problems like orange peel or sags show glaringly. And Toyota may have had a run of black cars that aren't great. Sometimes, if there is enough consumer complaints, a car company might mitigate. But I doubt they will for one case unless it's so bad they can't ignore it. I can tell you of one of my experiences with Honda.
Honda has a problem with some dark blue 2007 Civics, like my trade car. There has been an off and on bulletin at the dealers. The paint was badly deteriorated because of sun exposure. I don't know who's paint it was (hope not PPG), but the car was built in Canada. Honda repainted my car a few months ago to the tune of over $4000. It looked good enough to trade after that. There is hope that Toyota will do something similar in the future with your car, if it's as bad as you believe, but don't count on it.
I have seen some horrendously bad paint on some new cars over the years on different models. They look dull and "orange peeled" like you describe. I would be embarrassed if I were the manufacturer. I think some in the industry are complacent. It could be a big expensive problem if they started accommodating everyone's view. I agree with those who say you should compare your car to same model/color cars. Also keep in mind that all models don't have the same quality of finish. Expensive models get better looking quality paint. Paint is expensive. The industry used to use Mercedes as a standard for major production vehicles. Don't know if they still do.
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I understand how you feel. Try taking a picture of your paint with some kind of graphic reflected in it, like a grid, lettering, or black and white pattern. You'll have to get the focus right, A cellphone or cheap camera might not do. The industry does something similar to check gloss and DOI. We still won't know for sure but we'll see better.
(Some might get mad at this but...) Corolla's aren't exactly top of the line. They're economy cars; I'm sure you know. My Tundra had better looking metallic/mica paint than my Civic ever did new.
(Some might get mad at this but...) Corolla's aren't exactly top of the line. They're economy cars; I'm sure you know. My Tundra had better looking metallic/mica paint than my Civic ever did new.
They wont do anything about it if you allow them to not do anything about it.
Don't quit! You have a lot of consumer protection laws on your side. Use them!
Consider this; when you go to sell your car, it's also not going to be worth as much because of the defective paint, which can potentially cost you thousands of dollars in a reduced resale price.
Did you file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau yet?
Don't quit! You have a lot of consumer protection laws on your side. Use them!
Consider this; when you go to sell your car, it's also not going to be worth as much because of the defective paint, which can potentially cost you thousands of dollars in a reduced resale price.
Did you file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau yet?
FWIW - I saw a black 2014 Corolla on the road on the way home yesterday - no orange peel in the paint that I could see, but obviously, I didn't have a chance to do a careful inspection.
Do you know how these are worded?
I.e. does it mean a Corolla painted in Mississippi has to have water-based paint, but one painted in Canada would not? Or is it worded that any car imported for sale in the USA has to use water-based paint (so for example, Ford doesn't paint their cars in Mexico and then import them back for assembly).
Do you know how these are worded?
I.e. does it mean a Corolla painted in Mississippi has to have water-based paint, but one painted in Canada would not? Or is it worded that any car imported for sale in the USA has to use water-based paint (so for example, Ford doesn't paint their cars in Mexico and then import them back for assembly).
I don't know about Canada's regulations, or other countries, but I'm pretty sure the emissions requirements are country specific. Meaning, other countries can create petro emissions if their laws allow. Once the paint is cured, it's in stable solid form. I no longer think it's a problem with the US.
Well I've contacted Toyota customer experience multiple times they've called a couple time's so I called them back today and they said they go by what ths dealership says not the customer and asked what I wanted Toyota to do to make me happy I said make my paint right and they basically said in uncertain words they won't since the dealership said it's not orange peel and a defect and asked what else do I want Toyota to do make me happy.
Have you checked with other dealers?
Wouldn't be totally uncommon for one dealer to say "That's Normal" and another to say "That is totally unacceptable, let us get that taken care of".
In this case, I'm not too hopeful b/c there aren't easy options for them. (i.e. if the cruise control switch is intermittent, they just deny the claim or replace a $50 (??) switch). Here, they don't have simple options - i.e.
- try to get a detail/body shop to blend or buff out the paint, but hope they don't damage the clear coat and overall life of the paint doing that.
- have the car stripped and re-painted, but that will be expensive, someone else quoted $4K earlier in the thread.
- Come up with some kind of cash settlement or vehicle swap that will make you happy and find someone that would be okay with your car in it's current condition.
- Make the paint right, or ...
- Give me a cash settlement for enough money that I can have a body shop re-paint the car and make the paint right, or ...
- Trade me into a different Toyota at financially agreeable terms (full credit for the existing car), so I don't have a car with poor paint, or ...
Wouldn't be totally uncommon for one dealer to say "That's Normal" and another to say "That is totally unacceptable, let us get that taken care of".
In this case, I'm not too hopeful b/c there aren't easy options for them. (i.e. if the cruise control switch is intermittent, they just deny the claim or replace a $50 (??) switch). Here, they don't have simple options - i.e.
- try to get a detail/body shop to blend or buff out the paint, but hope they don't damage the clear coat and overall life of the paint doing that.
- have the car stripped and re-painted, but that will be expensive, someone else quoted $4K earlier in the thread.
- Come up with some kind of cash settlement or vehicle swap that will make you happy and find someone that would be okay with your car in it's current condition.
- Make the paint right, or ...
- Give me a cash settlement for enough money that I can have a body shop re-paint the car and make the paint right, or ...
- Trade me into a different Toyota at financially agreeable terms (full credit for the existing car), so I don't have a car with poor paint, or ...
I looked into the lemon law since it was mentioned earlier in the thread:
http://www.ncdoj.gov/consumer/automobiles/lemon-law.aspx
Seems like there is a legal loophole here:
The North Carolina Lemon Law, also known as the New Motor Vehicles Warranties Act (N.C.G.S. 20-351), applies to new passenger cars, pick-up trucks, motorcycles and most vans bought in North Carolina. It requires manufacturers to repair defects that affect the use, value, or safety of a new motor vehicle within the first 24 months or 24,000 miles (whichever comes first).
Your car may be covered by the Lemon Law if all of the following have happened:
Under the law, they must either replace your car or buy it back. You get to decide between a comparable new car and a refund.
Bullet 1 can be argued that it applies.
Bullet 2 you can make happen yourself.
Bullet 3 and 4 - here is the loophole - "What happens if the dealer says "Nope, that's normal, the air conditioner is NEVER supposed to blow out cold air on a new Toyota." So the dealer doesn't make "a reasonable number of attempts" so you can't invoke the law. (I think the way it could be interpreted would have "out-of-service" as "exhibiting the problem", in which case after you notify them of the problem, if then don't do anything within a month, you have legal standing to make them take the car back or refund your money.
Wouldn't hurt to call them at the toll-free number and see what they say.
http://www.ncdoj.gov/consumer/automobiles/lemon-law.aspx
Seems like there is a legal loophole here:
The North Carolina Lemon Law, also known as the New Motor Vehicles Warranties Act (N.C.G.S. 20-351), applies to new passenger cars, pick-up trucks, motorcycles and most vans bought in North Carolina. It requires manufacturers to repair defects that affect the use, value, or safety of a new motor vehicle within the first 24 months or 24,000 miles (whichever comes first).
Your car may be covered by the Lemon Law if all of the following have happened:
- The problem occurs in some part of the vehicle that is covered by the manufacturer's warranty and you are within the warranty period. It does not need to be something that keeps you from being able to drive the car. For example, faulty air conditioning or peeling paint could be considered defects under the Lemon Law.
- You tell the manufacturer about the problem in writing and give them a reasonable period, but not more than 15 days, to fix it.
- The manufacturer makes “a reasonable number of attempts” to fix the vehicle. This means that the car has been repaired for the same problem four or more times, or that it has been out of service a cumulative total of 20 or more business days during a 12 month period of the warranty.
- The manufacturers’ efforts to fix the vehicle fail.
Under the law, they must either replace your car or buy it back. You get to decide between a comparable new car and a refund.
Bullet 1 can be argued that it applies.
Bullet 2 you can make happen yourself.
Bullet 3 and 4 - here is the loophole - "What happens if the dealer says "Nope, that's normal, the air conditioner is NEVER supposed to blow out cold air on a new Toyota." So the dealer doesn't make "a reasonable number of attempts" so you can't invoke the law. (I think the way it could be interpreted would have "out-of-service" as "exhibiting the problem", in which case after you notify them of the problem, if then don't do anything within a month, you have legal standing to make them take the car back or refund your money.
Wouldn't hurt to call them at the toll-free number and see what they say.
Well I told the guy in Toyota customer experience that if they can't fix the paint like I want I'd like for them to trade me out of this car 100% and get me into an s model corolla I wanted to begin with said they'll have a case manager call me within one business day to discuss it think if they do it I'll have to go back to the same dealership or they'll let me choose?
Okay - I'm mostly guessing here - but ...
When you are working with the service advisors at the dealership, to some extent, the dealership has to decide how much of a loss they are taking on the car. The selling dealer is probably more likely to work with you, b/c he wants your repeat business, but an outside dealer might be more objective on the condition of the paint.
Now, the case manager is probably independent of the dealer - so if he says "We need to put this guy in an S model - make it happen", I think Toyota is making up any cost difference, so in that situation it probably doesn't matter. I.e. the selling dealer should be happy to work with you now b/c he is getting re-imbursed by corporate, or any other dealer would work with you b/c corporate is making up their losses.
I could be WAY wrong, but that is how I would expect it to work out.
When you are working with the service advisors at the dealership, to some extent, the dealership has to decide how much of a loss they are taking on the car. The selling dealer is probably more likely to work with you, b/c he wants your repeat business, but an outside dealer might be more objective on the condition of the paint.
Now, the case manager is probably independent of the dealer - so if he says "We need to put this guy in an S model - make it happen", I think Toyota is making up any cost difference, so in that situation it probably doesn't matter. I.e. the selling dealer should be happy to work with you now b/c he is getting re-imbursed by corporate, or any other dealer would work with you b/c corporate is making up their losses.
I could be WAY wrong, but that is how I would expect it to work out.
Yea I thought and the time all dealerships were true car dealers but found out different I even showed them the website and they totally ignored it I found out I over paid for it I could've gotten the corolla I wanted for less than I have of course they weren't going to tell me I've not been happy with the dealership from day one I'm DEFINITELY not now even if Toyota makes them switch car's equally I'm never dealing with them again.
Not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean they aren't a legitimate Toyota dealer, or you just mean they don't honor the www.truecar.com pricing.
I know with gas stations - most are franchised, but a few are corporate-owned.
I assumed ALL car dealers were franchised. If they have a big Toyota sign out in front and aren't authorized by Toyota, they can be sued (not to mention, it makes me wonder how they get inventory).
Pricing on new cars is ALWAYS negotiable. i.e. the dealer in the next town might be ADVERTISING the car for $3K less. That doesn't mean the dealer you bought from won't sell for that price if you negotiate hard, and you also might find that the car the next car over is more expensive after the documentation fees, low-ball offer on your trade-in, expensive financing, dealer installed options, etc.
Also - you can usually get the www.truecar.com price or better by negotiating well.
A couple more suggestions:
- If you are trying to trade into an S model, are you looking to trade your car with the custom rims and stereo? The reason I am asking is b/c if you find a dealer that thinks they have a buyer for your car who doesn't care about the paint, they will be in a position to offer you more for the car to put you into the car you want.
- You can always go to ANY dealer you want and trade your car on ANY car you want, regardless of what Toyota does or doesn't do on the paint - you just have to know pricing to avoid taking a bath on the new car and trade-in also.
- In either case, you might want to take the car to either a detail shop or a body shop and get an idea of what they think it would cost to restore the paint. This helps with your decision. (i.e. You want it in writing, but if they say they can buff it out for $200 and you will have a mirror-smooth finish on the car - you are better off eating the $200 loss than trying to trade into a different car (and Toyota will probably foot the bill for $200). If they say they have to strip all the paint off and re-spray for $6K - you probably don't want to eat that, but you have documentation to show Toyota and a starting point for what they can do to make it right. i.e. "Anyone who buys this car will need to spend $6K re-conditioning the paint, so it is worth $6K less when I try to trade it, so I should be compensated for that."
I know with gas stations - most are franchised, but a few are corporate-owned.
I assumed ALL car dealers were franchised. If they have a big Toyota sign out in front and aren't authorized by Toyota, they can be sued (not to mention, it makes me wonder how they get inventory).
Pricing on new cars is ALWAYS negotiable. i.e. the dealer in the next town might be ADVERTISING the car for $3K less. That doesn't mean the dealer you bought from won't sell for that price if you negotiate hard, and you also might find that the car the next car over is more expensive after the documentation fees, low-ball offer on your trade-in, expensive financing, dealer installed options, etc.
Also - you can usually get the www.truecar.com price or better by negotiating well.
A couple more suggestions:
- If you are trying to trade into an S model, are you looking to trade your car with the custom rims and stereo? The reason I am asking is b/c if you find a dealer that thinks they have a buyer for your car who doesn't care about the paint, they will be in a position to offer you more for the car to put you into the car you want.
- You can always go to ANY dealer you want and trade your car on ANY car you want, regardless of what Toyota does or doesn't do on the paint - you just have to know pricing to avoid taking a bath on the new car and trade-in also.
- In either case, you might want to take the car to either a detail shop or a body shop and get an idea of what they think it would cost to restore the paint. This helps with your decision. (i.e. You want it in writing, but if they say they can buff it out for $200 and you will have a mirror-smooth finish on the car - you are better off eating the $200 loss than trying to trade into a different car (and Toyota will probably foot the bill for $200). If they say they have to strip all the paint off and re-spray for $6K - you probably don't want to eat that, but you have documentation to show Toyota and a starting point for what they can do to make it right. i.e. "Anyone who buys this car will need to spend $6K re-conditioning the paint, so it is worth $6K less when I try to trade it, so I should be compensated for that."
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The dealership I bought my car from was a true car dealer I should've done more research but at the time I thought all dealerships were true car dealers but found out after buying the car they weren't and no if Toyota was to trade me out of this corolla into the S model I'll be putting the factory stereo and wheels back won't take more than two hours to take out all my stereo equipment out along with my custom wheels I'm not giving that away I want to use it in the S model f there willing to trade me out 100% on this vehicle.
Okay - I'm still confused.
The dealership you bought the car from is the same one that doesn't want to do anything about the paint, correct?
Do you mean it ISN'T a true car dealer?
Do you just mean it doesn't match www.truecar.com prices, or it isn't a true car dealer (Joe's New Cars as opposed to Lumberton Toyota)?
The dealership you bought the car from is the same one that doesn't want to do anything about the paint, correct?
Do you mean it ISN'T a true car dealer?
Do you just mean it doesn't match www.truecar.com prices, or it isn't a true car dealer (Joe's New Cars as opposed to Lumberton Toyota)?
I always use multiple sources when valuing new cars or used cars I want to buy or sell. Sources like Edmunds, NADA, Kelly Blue Book, Autotrader, Cars.com, eBay, and truecar.com can be useful. It's even good to check dealers web prices and local advertisements. These sources can give you a ball park figure as to what you should pay or charge, and help you get a good deal. However—big however—mostly these prices are near useless when selling or buying a car. Does anyone really think that dealers will give you their absolute best deal because of something you've seen online. “No Hassle” pricing is for suckers (sorry if this seems harsh).
Bottom line is you have to deal. You have to play the damn game, if you want the best deal. Sometimes that means playing one dealer against another. They absolutely hate this. But they love to play you. Even the best, most honest dealers will play the pricing game with you. I like the ones that don't insult you or your time. They don't try to trick you. (People usually trick themselves.) Those dealers are the good ones—worth going back to.
Note: I have seen dealer's online specials that are higher priced than advertised on their lot. I have actually seen dealers use pictures of cars with prices painted large on their windshields that are a $1000 cheaper than the order-it-now, just-for-you-online, Internet Price. That's how dumb they think you are. (They even have a picture of the big smiling face of your personal new friend and salesperson next to the price.) __________________
Bottom line is you have to deal. You have to play the damn game, if you want the best deal. Sometimes that means playing one dealer against another. They absolutely hate this. But they love to play you. Even the best, most honest dealers will play the pricing game with you. I like the ones that don't insult you or your time. They don't try to trick you. (People usually trick themselves.) Those dealers are the good ones—worth going back to.
Note: I have seen dealer's online specials that are higher priced than advertised on their lot. I have actually seen dealers use pictures of cars with prices painted large on their windshields that are a $1000 cheaper than the order-it-now, just-for-you-online, Internet Price. That's how dumb they think you are. (They even have a picture of the big smiling face of your personal new friend and salesperson next to the price.) __________________
Absolutely ...
From my own research and a few things I've picked up online.
Edmunds is usually high on new cars - TrueCar tends to be also, but it gives you a starting point and point of reference (i.e. - you should always be able to match the TrueCar price, or if not, just click the "SPAM my E-mail" button and go to one of their dealers and say "I want to buy Car Y as Dealer A from you for this price".
Generally, the online prices on cars.com or AutoTrader or the lot prices are lowest, but there may be hidden fees - but again - it gives you "This is what your website said it costs, you can sell it to me for that, or I'll walk and see if the other dealer wants to sell me a car." and/or "Dealer Y's website has the same car for $$$, so that is what I will pay."
On used cars, Edmunds tends to be high and KBB tends to be low - so you want to know what the KBB price is, print out the Edmunds price, and then try to negotiate somewhere in the middle.
In the end, it's all a game and most dealers will tell you they lost money on your car regardless.
From my own research and a few things I've picked up online.
Edmunds is usually high on new cars - TrueCar tends to be also, but it gives you a starting point and point of reference (i.e. - you should always be able to match the TrueCar price, or if not, just click the "SPAM my E-mail" button and go to one of their dealers and say "I want to buy Car Y as Dealer A from you for this price".
Generally, the online prices on cars.com or AutoTrader or the lot prices are lowest, but there may be hidden fees - but again - it gives you "This is what your website said it costs, you can sell it to me for that, or I'll walk and see if the other dealer wants to sell me a car." and/or "Dealer Y's website has the same car for $$$, so that is what I will pay."
On used cars, Edmunds tends to be high and KBB tends to be low - so you want to know what the KBB price is, print out the Edmunds price, and then try to negotiate somewhere in the middle.
In the end, it's all a game and most dealers will tell you they lost money on your car regardless.
No you don't ...
Not really ....
You might get $3,291 off MSRP sticker if the dealer offers special pricing, but you might save $3,500 off MSRP just walking in off the street and negotiating.
I get X-Plan on Ford's through my work, but if you just walk in off the street you can negotiate better than the truecar.com or X-Plan price on Fords, but if you don't mention that, of course the dealer will tell you that X-Plan is the best they can do.
I did some checking and TrueCar works fairly well for you. For a base S model, TrueCar shows 16,775. The best price on www.cars.com is $18,984 at Fred Anderson Toyota. But I often see cars locally for maybe $50 - $500 less than the Truecar price.
It depends on the area and what specials they are running that week - Then again - you could walk into most dealers and offer them $16,775 and drive the car home if it is an S with no options and they don't have high overhead or think they can't sell it to someone else for more than that. They won't be jumping over themselves to sell for that price, but they probably won't walk away either.
Not really ....
You might get $3,291 off MSRP sticker if the dealer offers special pricing, but you might save $3,500 off MSRP just walking in off the street and negotiating.
I get X-Plan on Ford's through my work, but if you just walk in off the street you can negotiate better than the truecar.com or X-Plan price on Fords, but if you don't mention that, of course the dealer will tell you that X-Plan is the best they can do.
I did some checking and TrueCar works fairly well for you. For a base S model, TrueCar shows 16,775. The best price on www.cars.com is $18,984 at Fred Anderson Toyota. But I often see cars locally for maybe $50 - $500 less than the Truecar price.
It depends on the area and what specials they are running that week - Then again - you could walk into most dealers and offer them $16,775 and drive the car home if it is an S with no options and they don't have high overhead or think they can't sell it to someone else for more than that. They won't be jumping over themselves to sell for that price, but they probably won't walk away either.
I wish I would've done more research before I bought this car from the dealership I did http://www.bbb.org/myrtle-beach/bus...-cars/peterson-toyota-in-lumberton-nc-8001046
https://www.truecar.com/prices-new/...355&incentiveIds=&trimId=263857&zipcode=30332
Locally for me, it is showing $19,541 on TrueCar with an average paid of $22,072. Neither of those include tint, which would be around $200 locally.
Depending on your region, you probably did okay, but not great.
Locally for me, it is showing $19,541 on TrueCar with an average paid of $22,072. Neither of those include tint, which would be around $200 locally.
Depending on your region, you probably did okay, but not great.
Good price - True Car shows the S Plus in your area at 17,444.
Rick has a black one and a silver one, but on the website, they want $21,100:
http://www.rickhendricktoyota.com/i...cars-toyota-corolla-sort_priceasc-page_4.html
Otherwise, on Cars.com - there are some in Rock Hill for 17,160, but if you said yours has tint, that makes the price the same: http://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...d=24752&trId=53427&searchSource=GN_REFINEMENT
Rick has a black one and a silver one, but on the website, they want $21,100:
http://www.rickhendricktoyota.com/i...cars-toyota-corolla-sort_priceasc-page_4.html
Otherwise, on Cars.com - there are some in Rock Hill for 17,160, but if you said yours has tint, that makes the price the same: http://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...d=24752&trId=53427&searchSource=GN_REFINEMENT
Well Toyota was no help the case manager took the dealerships side like I thought the man I talked before her said they went by what the dealership says and asked what else Toyota could do to make me happy besides fixing the paint so I said switch me out of my LE he said for me to discuss it with thr case manager which she said they wouldn't do and never asked what can Toyota do to make me happy like the guy I talked to before what a waste of time everything was!
https://www.truecar.com/prices-new/...355&incentiveIds=&trimId=263857&zipcode=30332
We are thread-jacking the original post pretty badly, but not really if you mean before TTL, etc. $18,400 is about right for my area.
We are thread-jacking the original post pretty badly, but not really if you mean before TTL, etc. $18,400 is about right for my area.
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