What Oil?

#1
Hey guys, I live in Ontario Canada and am proud to say I will be getting my Corolla S (with upgrade package) next week. I noticed that these cars take 0-20 as far as oil. I do all my oil changes on my vehicles but don't recall seeing any 0-20 jumping off the shelf. Is this strictly a synthetic? I forgot to ask the dealership.

Thanks,
Adam
 
#2
Yes. Engine calls for full synthetic 0w-20. You can use 5w-20 if you need to but it must be changed back after 5,000 miles (and doing that often will create a sludge festival).
 
#3
Yes. Engine calls for full synthetic 0w-20. You can use 5w-20 if you need to but it must be changed back after 5,000 miles (and doing that often will create a sludge festival).
I had a 2000 chevy malibu with synthetic and in my opinion it ran much better on synthetic than conventional. In my opinion I would use the oil and gas recommended by the manufacturer mainly because engineers designed it that way plus going outside of the recommendations would cause warranty issues if they would ever arise.
 
#4
Manual states you can do it once but must switch back, so it wouldn't void warranty. Probably for those who live in a small town and have a hard time getting ahold of 0w20
 

Scott O'Kashan

Super Moderator
#5
Yes, the 0W-20 is a synthetic motor oil. Petroleum oils can't be formulated in the 0W-20 viscosity, as they just can't cut the mustard. All newer Toyota's come right from the factory assembly lines with synthetic motor oil in the engines.

Be aware that synthetic motor oils are not all the same, no more than brake pads, tires, stereo systems, etc.
 
#7
I had a 2000 chevy malibu with synthetic and in my opinion it ran much better on synthetic than conventional. In my opinion I would use the oil and gas recommended by the manufacturer mainly because engineers designed it that way plus going outside of the recommendations would cause warranty issues if they would ever arise.

What brand and viscosity? The various brands of, "synthetic oil", are very different.
 
#8
stupid question but is it 4 and half quarts??

I'm about to change my oil this weekend coming up.
Why are you changing the oil so soon?

From my website -

CAPACITIES: Engine, with filter..........4.4 quarts [1]
Cooling System, Initial Fill..........5.8 quarts
Automatic Transmission, U341E Initial Fill..........2.6 quarts
Automatic Transmission, K313 Initial Fill..........1.3 quarts
Automatic Transmission, Total Fill
4 speed U341E..........6.9 quarts
Manual Transmission, EC65 (6-SPD)..........5.1 pints
[1] After refill check oil level.

TORQUES: Oil Drain Plug.....27 ft/lbs
Manual Transmission EC65 (6-SPD)
Fill Plug 29 ft/lbs
Drain Plug 33 ft/lbs
 
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#9
Manual states you can do it once but must switch back, so it wouldn't void warranty. Probably for those who live in a small town and have a hard time getting ahold of 0w20
The manual is kinda vague on this ...

It states they if you use 5W20 mineral oil, you HAVE to switch back to 0W20 at the NEXT oil change. It doesn't say you can't flip flop and run 5W20 again after that, and it doesn't say what you could do with 5W-20 Full Synthetic or 0W-50 Full Synthetic.

It also says you can do what you want and as long as your actions don't CAUSE the problem, it won't void the warranty.

My personal opinion is you would be fine running any synthetic for 10K miles (I wouldn't use 20W-50 in it, though) and any dino oil with 5K changes.

That said - it isn't 2x the price for 0w20 oil, not even factoring in the cost of the filters, and it's more convenient to only have to change the oil every 10K miles, so I would stick to 0W20 oil in it.
 
#10
Having been in the synthetic oil industry for close many years I know that it's not possible to have a petroleum 0W-20 motor oil. So a 0W-20 can only be a synthetic motor oil.
 
#11
Why are you changing the oil so soon?

From my website -

CAPACITIES: Engine, with filter..........4.4 quarts [1]
Cooling System, Initial Fill..........5.8 quarts
Automatic Transmission, U341E Initial Fill..........2.6 quarts
Automatic Transmission, K313 Initial Fill..........1.3 quarts
Automatic Transmission, Total Fill
4 speed U341E..........6.9 quarts
Manual Transmission, EC65 (6-SPD)..........5.1 pints
[1] After refill check oil level.

TORQUES: Oil Drain Plug.....27 ft/lbs
Manual Transmission EC65 (6-SPD)
Fill Plug 29 ft/lbs
Drain Plug 33 ft/lbs

thanks for the info, my cars 3 months old at 4k miles. Still original oil from day one. I want to switch it to synthetic soon. After the change I wont be in a rush to change it so soon.
 
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#12
Nothing in my reply said that 0W20 oil was not synthetic.

Djhyper66 - According to the owners manual your car shipped with 0W20, which currently by definition is full-synthetic and good for 10K miles.

I would run it for the full 10K miles before doing the first oil change, but the only reason to change it early would be if you were worried about metal filings, break-in oil, etc.

That was a requirement in the 1970's and a lot of people still do it, but it really isn't required anymore.
 

fishycomics

Super Moderator
#13
Break in oil days are gone but nothing in the World can change a Stubborn mind. Toyota care pkg should also be in your purchase. did you at least look into that?
 
#14
Good points.

Not sure how Toyota care pkg handles it if you want them to change the oil at 4K miles for free ...

(Personally, I trust myself over the dealer to change the oil, so might do it myself even with Toyota care, but not before 10K - although I don't think changing it more often would do any serious harm.)
 
#15
I changed it at 300 miles just to verify the engine was fine (and yes, I'm still the old school change after break-in type).

If you want them to change the oil early, even with Toyota Care, you'll be charged for it but you may be able to get a discount (and the dealer always has the option of doing it for free if they wish, but you'd have to have a really nice dealership for that).

I'm going to take advantage of my Toyota Care, then go back to doing changes, so it'll be a nice break for me.
 
#16
Having been in the synthetic oil industry for close many years I know that it's not possible to have a petroleum 0W-20 motor oil. So a 0W-20 can only be a synthetic motor oil.
I realize you're in the oil industry and know more than I about these matters.

My wife's 2012 Honda CRV requires 0W-20 oil, the manual does not state it needs synthetic.

When getting the oil changed at the Honda dealer, they only charge about $2.89/quart for 0W-20 oil. That is not synthetic oil pricing. So, I felt they were using a conventional oil of that weight.

Are you sure it doesn't exist?
 
#17
I'm not in the oil industry and I've never seen 0W-20 in even a semi-synthetic. 5W-20, yes.

Either the Honda dealer is using something like 5W-20 and telling you it is 0W-20 (most likely), or they are discounting to oil change price for goodwill and to get you in the shop for other repairs.

I usually don't see dino oil on the shelf for $2.89/qt anymore - but I'm sure the dealers buy in bulk, so ...
 
#18
Standard oil can't get lower than 5W, so 0W will always be synthetic.

That's damn cheap though if that is what they are charging. I haven't seen standard oil at that price in a decade.
 

fishycomics

Super Moderator
#19
Break in oil, what does the book say to change?

Go with how you feel. if you think 300 miles or 800 miles, Just make sure you do not ride it like you stole it for 10K with the first oil change.

More frequent changes can not hurt. Just ignoring it will.

Like said, you can change it out first, then go to Toyota car, and alternate. so you can take advantage of the Toyota care pkg. without abusing it.


So many cars flying on the road
 
#22
Thanks for all the replies. I'm picky when it comes to torquing things down.
Does anyone know what the torque spec is on the drain plug?
From my website - 2014 Corolla -

CAPACITIES: Engine, with filter..........4.4 quarts [1]
Cooling System, Initial Fill..........5.8 quarts
Automatic Transmission, U341E Initial Fill..........2.6 quarts
Automatic Transmission, K313 Initial Fill..........1.3 quarts
Automatic Transmission, Total Fill
4 speed U341E..........6.9 quarts
Manual Transmission, EC65 (6-SPD)..........5.1 pints
[1] After refill check oil level.

TORQUES: Oil Drain Plug.....27 ft/lbs

Manual Transmission EC65 (6-SPD)
Fill Plug 29 ft/lbs
Drain Plug 33 ft/lbs
 
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#25
From my website - 2014 Corolla -

CAPACITIES: Engine, with filter..........4.4 quarts [1]
Cooling System, Initial Fill..........5.8 quarts
Automatic Transmission, U341E Initial Fill..........2.6 quarts
Automatic Transmission, K313 Initial Fill..........1.3 quarts
Automatic Transmission, Total Fill
4 speed U341E..........6.9 quarts
Manual Transmission, EC65 (6-SPD)..........5.1 pints
[1] After refill check oil level.

TORQUES: Oil Drain Plug.....27 ft/lbs

Manual Transmission EC65 (6-SPD)
Fill Plug 29 ft/lbs
Drain Plug 33 ft/lbs
Wow! 27, Glad I asked, never thought it would have been that much.
Thanks
 
#28
I'm based within the GTA. Where do you get your SAE 0W-20 Oil? I've been researching and found the following

Wal-mart

Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy 1L $11.47
Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy 4.4L 43.97
Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 946ML $11.47

Canadian Tire

Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil 4.4L $13.99

Quaker State Full Synthetic Oil, 0W20 946ML $12.49
Quaker State Full Synthetic Oil, 0W20 5L $50.99

Formula 1 Synthetic Motor Oil, 0W20 946ML $10.99
Formula 1 Synthetic Motor Oil, 0W20 5L 43.99

Where would you buy Toyota Genuine Synthetic Motor Oil (TGMO 0W-20)
 
#29
The Toyota Genuine will only be sold at a Stealership.

And I usually just get them hand tight and add a couple "umph, umphs". I always get paranoid about stripping the bolt but I do have a torque wrench, so I might as well start using it for that.
 
#30
I'm based within the GTA. Where do you get your SAE 0W-20 Oil? I've been researching and found the following

Wal-mart

Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy 1L $11.47
Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy 4.4L 43.97
Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 946ML $11.47

Canadian Tire

Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil 4.4L $13.99

Quaker State Full Synthetic Oil, 0W20 946ML $12.49
Quaker State Full Synthetic Oil, 0W20 5L $50.99

Formula 1 Synthetic Motor Oil, 0W20 946ML $10.99
Formula 1 Synthetic Motor Oil, 0W20 5L 43.99

Where would you buy Toyota Genuine Synthetic Motor Oil (TGMO 0W-20)
Lower performing Group III, "synthetic oils"?
 
#32
Not sure quite what you mean ? Those are the only Synthetic Oils i could get in GTA stores.
That is exactly what the Big Oil industry is counting on in order to get you to buy their, "synthetic oils", i.e. that you're not sure what a true synthetic oil is. Don't feel bad and I'm not picking on you, but most consumers don't know and again that is what the greedy Big Oil industry is counting on. Unfortunately, consumers lacking in information on this topic buy their, "synthetic oils", in droves. I'm an independent AMSOIL synthetic lubricants Dealer of many years experience, so I'll explain the situation for you. So you can understand this topic, unfortunately, the answer is not short so bear with me.

You can Google this and find a many articles about this topic. Years back, Castrol introduced their Syntec, (tm), "synthetic oil", and it had a considerably lower price than other synthetic oils on the market. The folks at Exxon/Mobil wondered what was going on, checked into this oil and discovered that it wasn't really a synthetic oil in the traditional sense of the term, which is a man-made, vastly superior performing motor oil formulated molecule by molecule in a laboratory. This greatly differs from petroleum crude oils pumped from the ground that have random sized molecules, (some small, some large), that comparatively don't protect very well in high and low temperatures your engine experiences. Traditional synthetic oils have molecules that are all the same size so they are very resistant to evaporation/burn off at high temperatures and very resistant to congealing/thickening at low temperatures, providing outstanding protection for engines. It's a beast of a motor oil that provides unmatched protection for your engine! Petroleum crude oils also have a host of naturally occurring contaminants in them such as waxes, sulfurs, asphalts, napthenes, benzynes, etc., that have no beneficial lubricating qualities for the motor oil. They are contaminants. Most of it is removed during the refining process, but not all and an unopened bottle of petroleum oil still has contaminants present in the oil that negatively affect the performance of the motor oil.

So, the folks at Exxon/Mobil closely looked at this Syntec, (tm), motor oil and discovered that what Castrol was doing was formulating a motor oil using a petroleum crude oil base stock but subjecting it to a higher degree of refining, which yes does create a better oil than a bottle of traditional petroleum motor oil, but this process departs greatly from what a synthetic oil has traditionally been and all the advantages a synthetic motor traditionally provides. Castrol's stance was that since they were using so many man-made processes to manufacture this oil that it therefore means it's a, "synthetic oil"! Exxon/Mobil cried foul, (I agree!), and took Castrol to court. Apparently they didn't present their case very well, as the court sided with Castrol and that yes this oil formulated from petroleum crude oils pumped from the ground could be called a, "synthetic oil". This new form of, "synthetic oil" is known as a Group III synthetic oil. The superior performing, traditionally defined synthetic oils are known as Group IV and Group V synthetic oils. In Germany, I have read that it is illegal for an oil company to refer to a refined from petroleum crude oil Group III oil as a, "synthetic oil". Kudos to Germany! :thumbsup:

Group III, "synthetic oils", cost less to manufacture than Group IV or Group V synthetic oils, so if a Big Oil company can manufacture an oil for a lower price and still call it a, "synthetic oil", while still charging a higher retail price for this, "synthetic oil", what do you think they are likely to do? Right. :(:mad:

Personally, I find this deceptive and unethical at best, to refer to an oil refined from petroleum crude oil as, "synthetic oil". But apparently it's, "okay", to deceive the consumer. :thumbdown::mad:

You can contact these Big Oil companies and ask them if their, "synthetic oils", are a Group III or a Group IV oil, however I sincerely doubt they are going to tell you and give the standard canned response, "That is proprietary information". I've tried and that's the answer I get every time.

So how is the consumer to know which synthetic oils are Group III, Group IV or Group V? Petroleum motor oils typically have much lower flash points and pour points not as low as Group IV and Group V synthetic motor oils and this provides the big clue in uncovering a Group III, "synthetic oil". You can find this information in the Product Data Sheet of any oil which is usually, (although not always), available at a given oil companies website and compare the data from different brands to AMSOIL Signature Series motor oils. You'll be surprised with what you learn. :thumbsup:

Here is the link for the AMSOIL 0W-20 Signature Series synthetic motor oil. Scroll to the bottom to view the tech data on this oil -

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/find/product/asm?zo=349698


I have done this research and in my opinion the vast majority of, "synthetic oils", on the market today are now merely refined from petroleum crude oil Group III, "synthetic oils". Not a bargain in my opinion.

Here is a link to the best article I've ever seen on synthetic motor oils and all the outstanding benefits they provide -

Synthetic Oil: Rx for Long Engine Life

http://getahelmet.com/jeeps/tech/syntheticoil/

Here is a five minute video from my YouTube channel that provides more information on this often misunderstood topic -

Synthetic Oil Basics


If you'd like to see many other videos on this topic, here is the link to my YouTube channel that has many videos about this -

http://www.youtube.com/user/HiTechOilCo/videos


So there you go. I hope this answers your question for you. If you have other questions, feel free. :)
 
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#34
Here's my opinion on oils, I can only base it on my personal experience.

About 10 years ago I bought a cafe style motorcycle, a 95 GSXR 750. It was very fast and very fun. The father of a friend sold Amsoil and I decided to put it in the bike knowing that the motor would be abused by me. The bike tended to get hot if I got stuck in slow moving traffic, a couple times the temp needle was almost at max. I never had any engine problems over the 12,000 miles I put on the bike.

7 years ago I bought a brand new Civic Si. I love this car and it is high revving similar to the bike. It called for regular dyno oil but I decided it needed synthetic and found Mobil 1 to be a cheap alternative to the Amsoil, I figured the car wouldn't need the same level of protection as the bike. A few months ago I decided to start using Amsoil in the car, and there is a difference. I record my MPGs every week and so far, I seem to be getting 1 to 1.5 MPGs better with the Amsoil. It also seems to run a bit quieter. The car has just over 70,000 miles right now.

I bought from the same Amsoil guy I did from 10 years ago and he said that honestly, I may not notice a difference between Amsoil and Mobil 1 since Mobil consistently ranks in the top of oils tests, just below Amsoil.
 
#36
Here's my opinion on oils, I can only base it on my personal experience.

...I decided it needed synthetic and found Mobil 1 to be a cheap alternative to the Amsoil, I figured the car wouldn't need the same level of protection as the bike. A few months ago I decided to start using Amsoil in the car, and there is a difference. I record my MPGs every week and so far, I seem to be getting 1 to 1.5 MPGs better with the Amsoil. It also seems to run a bit quieter. The car has just over 70,000 miles right now.
The increase in fuel economy and the reduction in engine noise comes from the increase in lubrication that AMSOIL provides vs. Mobil 1 and other competing oils. Also, an infrared temperature gun typically shows a 20-50 deg. F. reduction in engine temperatures when moving up to AMSOIL synthetic motor oil and this means longer lasting seals and gaskets that don't dry out and crack, starting an oil leak. Temperature reductions also typically mean more power, better throttle response and an improvement in fuel economy. Professional racing teams go to great lengths to reduce temperatures anywhere they can.

An improvement in fuel economy not only saves you money in fuel costs, but the reduction in engine noise, (also indicating an improvement in lubrication), means less engine wear for an engine that will run "like new" for a longer period of time. You have done your engine and your wallet a big favor by moving up to AMSOIL. :thumbsup:

How much does even a 1 mpg improvement in fuel economy really save? It's no big deal, right? A 2007 Honda Civic Si has an EPA city/highway estimated average of 23 mpg. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Powe...mm&pageno=1&sortBy=Comb&tabView=0&rowLimit=10 In the U.S., the average accumulated mileage is about 15,000 miles per year.

15,000 miles divided by 23 mpg equals 652.17 gallons of gas times say a price of about $3.60 per gallon equals $2,347.81 a year in fuel costs.

With a 1 mpg AMSOIL provided improvement, 15,000 miles divided by 24 mpg equals 625 gallons of gas times $3.60 per gallon equals $2,250.00.

$2,347.81, (pre-AMSOIL annual fuel costs), minus $2,250.00, (after-AMSOIL annual fuel costs) equals a savings of $97.81 that AMSOIL has provided you, essentially paying for itself and being free! :thumbup1:

Hmmm...AMSOIL synthetic motor oils, essentially for free...putting money back into your wallet. Not a bad deal! I'm glad I was able to help you out. :thumbsup:

At the 1.5 mpg AMSOIL provided fuel economy improvement you mentioned, the numbers are even better -

15,000 miles divided by 24.5 mpg equals 612.24 gallons of gas times $3.60 per gallon equals $2,204.06 in yearly fuel costs, which means at a 1.5 mpg fuel economy increase vs. Mobil 1, using AMSOIL in your car instead is saving you a whopping $143.75 per year! :thumbsup::)

That's darned good money saved! $143 to use for something else, like taking your lady out to a five star restaurant, instead of donating it to a Big Oil company. :blink: So even if someone gave you Mobil 1 for free, it would still cost more to use than AMSOIL synthetic motor oils, because you'd be losing that $143 savings per year in fuel costs! :clap:

But let's go a bit further in the comparison and see what the calculator reveals.

With new cars costing so much money now, the average U.S. motorist is keeping their car for an average of 12 years.

12 years times an AMSOIL provided fuel cost savings of $143.75 per year equals an incredible $1,725 in fuel costs AMSOIL will save you! :eek::clap: This doesn't even take into account the price of fuel increasing over that 12 year period, so the savings will be even greater! This is huge money savings we're talking about.

When we add in the once per year oil change intervals and the reduced maintenance costs AMSOIL synthetic motor oils provide, the savings AMSOIL can provide are even greater.

Some people unknowingly say AMSOIL synthetic motor oils are expensive and I think the calculator just proved it's actually the competing oils that are the expensive choice. :thumbup1:
 
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#38
The AMSOIL OE 0W-20 synthetic motor oil is the entry level, standard drain product and is a blend of several base stocks. AMSOIL OE synthetic motor oil is specially formulated for the longer oil change intervals recommended by vehicle manufacturers today. Its advanced synthetic technology resists chemical breakdown for maximum wear protection (and peace of mind) well beyond the traditional 3,000-mile oil change interval. -

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/find/product/oez?zo=349698


The AMSOIL XL 0W-20 synthetic motor oil is a step up and is formulated for up to 10,000-miles/six month intervals, or longer when recommended in owners’ manuals or indicated by oil monitoring systems -


http://www.amsoil.com/shop/find/product/xlz?zo=349698


AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-20 synthetic motor oil is the top tier of AMSOIL synthetic motor oil. AMSOIL Signature Series synthetic motor oil delivers extraordinary lubrication in all types of automotive gasoline engines and is formulated for up to one year/25,000 mile drain intervals -


http://www.amsoil.com/shop/find/product/asm?zo=349698


So there is good, better and best choices using varying base stock technologies depending on the application.
 
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#39
Didn't get the answer I was looking for ...

To paraphrase -

You basically said Pennzoil, Quaker State, Mobil 1, Castol Syntec are crappy Grade III oils (my words, not yours exactly), but Toyota says I can use them in the Corolla for 1-year or 10K mile OCI's.

I asked if Amsoil OE was a Grade IV or Grade V oil. You said it is formulated for more than 3K miles - which implies it would NOT be as good as Pennzoil, etc. - although I'm pretty sure it could be used in the Corolla per the owner's manual. But the comment about a blend of base stocks makes me think it is grade three.

You said Amsoil XL is formulated for 6-month intervals or longer if permitted by the OM - which implies it is as good as Castrol or Pennzoil - still no mention of Grade III or Grade IV.

I assume Amsoil Signature is a Grade IV or Grade V product, but you claim 1-year OCI, which for the Corolla doesn't make it any better than Pennzoil (in terms of OCI only ...)
 
#41
Castrol sells a 0w20 that's not fully synthetic.
http://oils.auto-part-shops.com/castrol-60091-gtx-synblend-0w-20-motor-oil-6-gallon/

I wish you guys would making stuff up when you don't really know what you're talking about. You're polluting.
1. My exact quote was:

"Standard oil can't get lower than 5W, so 0W will always be synthetic."

2. The date on the website is:

May 21st, 2014, which signifies that Castrol released it recently (I, personally, have yet to see it on shelves).

3. Your sentence was incomplete. Did you want me to STOP making stuff up or KEEP making stuff up?
 
#42
Donabed - Regardless, you are still correct that a petroleum oil can't be a 0W-20 viscosity, at least not with the current technology. The oil the poster referenced is a semi-synthetic oil, not just a petroleum oil.
 
#44
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2652771

Oddly - it's apparently been around for at least 2 years - even though I hadn't heard of it until the post above.

Also - oddly - as mentioned in the link above - Toyota specifies a 10K OCI for 0W-20 oil and a 5K OCI for 5W-20 mineral oil. They don't specifically say if synblend 0W-20 is good for 10K OCI (but from the manual, they would have a hard time denying a claim if that was what you used), and they don't specifically say whether full synthetic 5W-20 can be run for more than 5K OCI (but again, it would be hard to deny a warranty claim based on that).
 
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